They should leave it at the current level or make it harder to get in. I find it disgusting that people get into this race because of celebrity status who have never done a triathlon in their lives (Keith from "Survivor", or the guy from "the bachelorette"). This is a championship level event, not a charity walk. Just because it exists does not mean everyone has the "right" to do it.

I thought they couldn't fit anymore people on the pier. If they expand the field, they would have to move the race again, right?

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

They already moved transition from the Pier to the parking lot of the King Kam last year. The talk last year was that the change was perhaps in case they were planning on expanding the field. I think the main reason to expand the field would be because they keep adding IM races and 1/2 IM races and those races need qualifying slots as well in order to compete with the other races around the world.

I would bet the question posed is not intended to expand the field for charity or celebs. But rather so the average (really super above average - but not quite eliete) age grouper can get into the race.

Seems to me a lot of the larger M-dot races are in the 1700 - 2000 participant range. I realize much has to do with venue size, but...


Fully agree that adding more qualifying races + popularity + the general enormity of the event = 200-300 more participants at Kona.

I think the argument that this will lessen the race is really not true. 300 slot divied out over 25 qualifying races = 12 additional slots per race then divide those 12 slots over 18 to 20 age groups, you are not going very deep at all in the talent pool.

Add a couple of quaifynng races to that math and the quality of the Kona race is not hurt one bit.

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rob reddy

As someone trying to qualify, I couldn't agree more. Also, just think about how many more triathletes there are these days and the times that are posted now. It was much easier to qualify years ago. It gets harder every year. We are due an increase in slots. I can remember just a few years back, there were like 20 slots in M30-34 in some IMNA races. Now there are what, 9?

Of course I am biased. Maybe I just need to learn how to swim.

Hi jaylew, I don't think you're biased...you suffer from being in one of the hardest age groups out there (M30-34), as do I. But, I'm not an IM athlete so you've nothing to worry about from me.. :)

If this race is to truly be a championship event, I think they should re-work the way slots are earned. Here's an example. At the end of the year, take all the IM events, and combine the results into a big spreadsheet. Sort by agegroup and gender. For example, put all M30-34's together, etc. Find out what the top 10% of times are for each age group, and use the slowest time in the top 10% as a cutoff. Apply this time to all races for the upcoming year as the cutoff time to get into Kona for people in that age group. This would have you competing against all IM entrants as a whole, not just those in your race.

If the cutoff is 10:00, you know you have to go 10:00 and if you get it, you're in. If you can't, try again. The time cutoff would shift based on participation and the quality of the competition within each age group. Top 10% is an arbitrary number, it could be top 8%, top 12%, I don't know. The percentage that sets the qualifying time would be based on the amount of people the race can hold. So, if taking the top 10% would mean 3,000 participants, then they drop it to top 8%, whatever, so that they keep participation levels that they can handle.

This is the way things like the marathon trials or other true championship events are held. You meet a standard to get in.

Or, they could just keep it the way it is now.. :)

I hear what your saying but...the course differences and the weather conditions on race day can have a huge impact on your finish time. For example IM-Lanzarote vs. IM-Florida. I think the only fair way to do it is by slots and finish place, not finish time.

Good point. 1/2 the field would be from Florida and Austria that way.

What about doing away with the lottery and make it so you have to qualify to get in? I think that would get rid of your Iron "Tourists" and celebs (well, probably not, they're like cockroaches). I personally think that getting rid of the lottery would be a good thing, make it a true championship that you can't essentially buy into.

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Phil Cutti

Dont get rid of the lottery! People like me could never qualify or buy a spot. It would only be Elite triathletes and Bourgeoisie without the lottery. They need spots for the common man, i think thats why the lottery was started. Need more lottery spots! Let me in!

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"They need spots for the common man, i think thats why the lottery was started."

The problem is that IMH is supposedly the World Championship. They don't let the common man in the Superbowl, the NBA Finals, or the World Series, so why do they do it in Hawaii? I think the WTC needs to decide if it's really about a championship or really about having 500 really good athletes and then a bunch of lottery picks and promo slots. If it's the latter, then Hawaii really isn't any different from any other IM race except in media exposure.

I think the existing system is good. As a guy who has missed qualify from anywhere from 8 seconds to 5-15 min in a full Ironman, I can appreciate the aspect of competition, although lately I have fallen furthur of the qualifying cut offs. Either way, if I go, I had a great race, if I'm 8 seconds too slow, then too bad for me. Keep the lottery too, but make it a real lottery with only something like 10-20 slots. Zero celeb slots would be great. My understanding is that they have more room in the new Tzone, so perhaps they can expand a bit.

I'd also like to see a system of regional qualifiers and feeder races rather than a zillion KONA qualifers. For example, races like Lake Placid, Germany, Australia, New Zealand and Brazil could be the only races with Hawaii slots, with around 200-500 per race. To get into these races, you'd have to either post a "fast time at other Ironmam races" or at sanctioned half Ironmans, or post a top 25% time in your age group in that "qual race" and be invited back. As it is , you have to qualify for Ironman Oz, so really, this would be nothing new. With 200-500 slots per race, there would be more slots per age group, but it would also roll down lower in a very stiff field.

This system would also establish "major" and "minor" races like you have in most sports. Right now the title of "Ironman winner" itself has been watered down with a couple of dozen races around the world. There was a time when the only way of beiing an Ironman winner was to win in NZ, OZ, Japan, Roth or IMC.

Yeah but if it was like the world series or superbowl they would just take the fastest field - period. No 70 yr olds, no youngsters, only the fast of the fast. Is that what we want. I vote no to that! (even though I would probably get in under this scenario)

I believe one of the stipulations that John Collins required when he sold the race, was that 'the common man' would always have a place in Kona.

"500 really good athletes and then a bunch of lottery picks and promo slots"

That is hardly the case. The majority of competitors are qualifiers, I believe there are only 150 lottery slots. I do not know how many 'special invites', or sponsor spots there are, but they don't encroach on the 1500 qualifiers.

That's a good topic for debate. One could argue that the race has a place for *age group* championships. And the 70 year olds can continue as can the 17 hour cutoff. Or they could only take the fastest folks and institute an 11 hour cutoff.

As for John Collins, I don't think he could have foreseen what IMH would become. It's kind of like the writers of the Constitution coming up with laws to govern internet conduct. It's a different animal.

"The majority of competitors are qualifiers,..."

But not all qualifiers are *really good* athletes. 500th place last year at Hawaii was around 10:30. The 11 and over crowd are decent athletes, but would you call them really good?

Are Sister Madonna Buder and Bill Bell 'really good' athletes? There are a lot of people who are 'great' athletes for their age, but take a while to finish. With the way the slots are handed out, a greater percentage of 'elderly' athletes get to go to Kona.

There are also a lot of people who have bad races in Kona (me for instance), and don't race up to their potential. From what I can tell, there aren't any 'easy' qualifiers any more, so everyone who qualifies is a 'really good' athlete.

But do that, and you're pricing the chance to go to Hawaii out of the reach of more people. Granted, this is already a sport of the relatively affluent, but there are some fast people out there who don't have the budget to make through another level of qualifying.

>>There are also a lot of people who have bad races in Kona (me for instance), and don't race up to their potential. From what I can tell, there aren't any 'easy' qualifiers any more, so everyone who qualifies is a 'really good' athlete.<<

And there are a lot of really good athletes for whom the qualifying IM race is THE race. Getting to Kona is the goal. Racing in Kona is just icing on the cake.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
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Here is an idea. Why don't they send off the pro field in two waves (mens, womens) about an hour before the AGer's? They can then open up the pro waves to more pro athletes, providing more exposure for the sport. They can give special invites to people like Simon Whitfield and Barb Lindquist and make the event more exciting and marketable. It will take care of the problems that the pro women have with the AG men swarming around them on the bike as well. And, more on topic, open up MORE AG slots, better exposure, better event! It's win, win.

There really should be a different way of qualifying. I have had a hard time in the past just getting into the races that have spots. That's why I turned pro. Same thing for Heather Gollnick. They should reserve a few Entries in the qualifying races for "racers" and have a system of qualifying for that title. It's sad to see hard working athletes get left out of the races because the CEO's took all the spots 12 months in advance.

Thanks, clm. While I knew that Ralph's was an A race for me, I never really thought about nor expected to be heading to Kona as a result.

Kona is truly the icing for me........I'm gonna try and make it the best damn icing I can, but I'm just thrilled to be going. :-)

And, yes, I do think that some of the folks who go 11+ hours are really good athletes.........let's just see if that guy's opinion changes as he gets up in years!

G

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It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.

It all depends on the conditions John...

I qualified at IMCdA last summer with a 10:30...I consider myself better than average (62nd of 1700 overall at CdA). 10:30 at CdA was hard because it was approaching 100 degrees and we had some hills...

I went 11:11 at Kona because I was simply enjoying the view...It was easy on that day.

Of course, I'm 33 years old, 5'10" and 146 pounds...My body was designed for this stuff.

I have much more respect for the older, physically-challenged, or those raising a family who race Ironman.

Having qualified, it simply confirmed for me how much LUCK is involved...I look forward to the day when I'm half the Ironman of Dev...

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Yes, but in other sports amatuers don't get to compete with professionals. Triathlon is different. It is driven by the comon man. You can't compare it to sports like football, baseball, and basketball.

Why not just change to make it so that the only way to qualify for Kona is to qualify at a full IM. Having completed three half and two full IMs, I am convinced that they are very different races and I just do not believe that being fast at one has a significant relation to being fast at the other.



How is this relevant to this topic? Move those qualifying spots from the half’s to the fulls – thus allowing more competitors from the full IM’s to qualify.



What do the fast half’s IMers do? I know that there is a competitive half IM series now and think it is a great idea. But why not run a half championship, possibly the day before the full championships or at a completely different time?



Just my thoughts, but would this not accomplish two important things – keep the need to qualify legit and create a greater opportunity for those who commit their training time to the full distance to qualify.



FYI – I do not in anyway think less of the commitment of those who focus on half’s. I just find that they are such different training and race experiences that I just have a hard time reconciling that you can qualify for the IM championships at a half.