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Thoughts on myths of FTP test
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Looking to hear what Slowtwitchers think about this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Gik9lxCek

I am not taking a position on whether what he says is true or not (because I haven't looked at the data) but I am curious.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Thoughts on myths of FTP test [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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It's a strawman argument. FTP has never been defined as 60.000....min power, and 95% of 20 min power has never been presented as more than an estimate of FTP, the accuracy of which can vary a bit between individuals. (It's also not a test that I personally have ever recommended, but that's a bit of a different story.)

Here is another example of somebody making a fool of themselves by raging against a non-existent machine:

http://marktallonphd.com/...threshold-power-ftp/
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Mar 5, 18 12:24
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Re: Thoughts on myths of FTP test [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Except when "validating" your model derived FTP estimates.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...ation-model-in-wko4/
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Re: Thoughts on myths of FTP test [liversedge] [ In reply to ]
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No "except."

95% of maximal 20 min power provides one well-accepted estimate of FTP; mFTP provides another. It is therefore perfectly logical to see how well they match up, especially in such a large and diverse sample size. It's not any different from comparing, say, power at Dmax and power at VT2, both of which provide estimates of maximal steady-state intensity.

That's one reason why your criticism is entirely off-base. The other, of course, is that I have shared these data many times over as well:


Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Mar 5, 18 12:38
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Re: Thoughts on myths of FTP test [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Dr. Coggan I have a quick question. How did you arrive at 90 or 95% number (in layman's terms)? If I read it correctly its a mathematical model that lead you to the 90/95% number as an estimate is that correct? I also noted that you said the best predictor of performance is performance itself, so if I did an FTP test and the model says 300 for example but my HR is consistently in too high then I should adjust my zones accordingly?

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
Last edited by: TizzleDK: Mar 5, 18 12:42
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Re: Thoughts on myths of FTP test [liversedge] [ In reply to ]
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"The ultimate test of any mathematical model is the external validity of the parameter estimates, i.e., how accurately they predict or reflect some “gold standard.” Ideally, this would entail comparing the model-derived parameter estimates to physiological measurements, e.g., comparing the model-derived FTP to power at maximal lactate steady state (MLSS). Unfortunately, no such physiological data were available to assess the performance of the model. [ . . ] in lieu of such tests the model-derived parameter estimates were compared against mean maximal power values also thought to be reflective of the pertinent underlying physiology, i.e., 1 s for maximal neuromuscular power, the classic 30 s Wingate test for fatigue resistance during high-intensity, non-sustainable exercise, and 95% of 20 min power as an estimate of FTP."
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Re: Thoughts on myths of FTP test [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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TizzleDK wrote:
Hey Dr. Coggan I have a quick question. How did you arrive at 90 or 95% number (in layman's terms)? Thanks.

I didn't; Hunter did (it's his test, not mine).

As I originally wrote back in 2001, the scientific literature would steer you towards a slightly lower figure (i.e., 93%). For whatever reason, though, 95% seems to be better on average, as the figure in the article to which Mark linked indicates.

ETA: I would ignore heart rate and just go by power.

Keep in mind, however, that "alls you can do is alls you can do" and "the training levels are descriptive, not prescriptive."
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Mar 5, 18 12:47
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Re: Thoughts on myths of FTP test [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Got it thanks. :)

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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