Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Thoughts about TdF #5
Quote | Reply
Lance's win in this year's TdF is amazing. But not because he won THIS race, but because his present course is a continuation of the journey he began when he was diagnosed with cancer. After reading Lance's book, and following the cycling scene for the last few years, I firmly believe that Lance will not be defeated in any race he sets his mind to win. To me, his victory this year was never really in question. I think Lance possesses something intangible -- call it the will to win, that never give up attitude, whatever -- that the rest of peloton lacks. And it is directly related to his battle with cancer. He went to the brink of death -- he stared death in the face and refused to give up. That battle, that struggle, imparted in him this intangible drive for victory that few professional athletes have. After what he endured as a cancer patient, I simply do not believe that riding a bike up a mountain or racing against the clock is as difficult to him as it is to the other racers. And when he does find himself in trouble, as he did at times this year, he knows how to regroup and right the ship.

I saw no reason to believe that Ullrich, Vino or any other competitor would overtake him this year. Ullrich has never beaten Lance in a race, and though he took a big chunk of time out of Lance in the first ITT, I figured Lance would recover and come back. And he did. When the outcome of the race hung in the balance, when he had to make a charge to ensure his victory, he did that very thing. Even in spite of The Crash. He was thrown to the pavement, yet he picked himself up and came back stronger than ever. What a fitting metaphor for not only this race but his life in general.

The other competitors had him on the ropes, and he came out swinging. He was supposed to be vulnerable, he wasn't the same Lance this year that he was in years past. Indeed he struggled, but in the process, he won this year's race with the fastest average speed (over 25 mph) than he posted over any of his other victories. That in and of itself speaks volumes. Maybe Lance wasn't 100% on form, but maybe the others were. A less than perfect Lance Armstrong bested a world class field with his fastest speed of any TdF, yet won by the smallest margin. That says more about his competition than it does his alleged lack of conditioning.

It's not that I don't like Ullrich (after this race, I have become a huge Jan Ullrich fan) or Beloki or Hamilton or any of the other top riders in the world. It's just that Lance has something that they don't, and I do not not see any of them beating him in a three week stage race. Lance has said that he will be back next year, and he won't be looking for second place. Barring a crash, I think that he will win #6. I don't think he can lose. He won't tolerate it. And I will root for him all the way.

I have lost one family member to cancer, and another relative died with the disease, not from it. I have seen what cancer can do to the body and to a family. Many of you have seen it as well; others of you have battled the disease and won. Cancer is terrible. The toll it takes on our population is incredible. My hat's off to anyone who has faced that specter and come out victorious. Lance is one of those who has. For that, I will always root for him. And I think he will win for as long as he wants to.

RP
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [rhpreston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This year's tour was amazing. I too have become a (fan?) not sure of a better word of Jan. He has always shown class in his cycling. I just hate he wrecked. I being an American and therefore Lance fan, will argue that they were even when he fell therefore it really didn't matter. Lance would have marked him through to the line, but others will argue Jan would have made up time in the last 10K. Who is right will never be known. Also what about Beloki? What would have happened if he would have remained upright? I feel it is safe to say the podium would have looked different. I know all this is based on if's and but's, however that's all we have. It was a great tour. If Beloki didn't wreck it may have been better, if Jan didn't wreck it may have been better. I don't think the end result (Lance winning) would have changed, but Vino may not have been on the podium.
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [rhpreston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It certainly was an amazing three weeks. A Tour for the ages. A truley Grand Boucle!

I wanted Armstrong to win the 5th straight. He is now set to do what no man has ever done - win a sixth. However, this year certainly showed him that he may have a huge fight on his hands next year - or whenever he decides to contest for the unprecedented 6th win. Not to take anything away from the previous 4 wins - they were all impressive, but this win showed, that luck, strategy, outstanding team work and bottom line, the ability to go to the very bottom of the well and dig deep( Luz Ardiden), is what it is all about!!

Looking ahead to next year, I realize it is a hypothetical thing, but think how much fitter Ullrich will be. What about a 100% Tyler Hamilton? What about Levi Leipheimer - who did not even get to show his cards this year. How about Beloki? He looked scary until the crash that took him out.Vinikourov?? Way to many other variables as there always are in the grand tours, but next year, could be even better than this year in terms of excitment and drama.

Now, let's just savour the moment. Armstrong has transcended the ranks of great athletes to the level of truley great sportsmen of all time. In my mind he is up there with Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Pele, Wayne Gretzky and a few others who are so good that my sense is that even his fellow competitors stand in awe of him.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [rhpreston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Many people have commented that Lance wasn't 100%, and that he left the door open.
- - BULLSH!T !!

Lance (well actually Chris Carmichael) has changed the way people train for endurance sports, specifically the TDF. Other riders are beginning to copy Lance's training regimen, his quicker cadence, and his unigue style of getting out of the saddle and getting way over the bars to get more ankle action and lift on the back of the pedal stroke.

The things that made this year's race so tight were:
1- Lance was bruised and sick coming of the Dauphine
2- Lance did close to 35% of the work in the TTT, because he wanted to add that to his resume. That took him out of the next two days, for want of recovery.
3-Ditto the loss of two days to recover from the ITT. In fact, I was surprised that he was even able to continue after that brush with dehydration and near heat stroke. His ability to come back and win after that demonstrated a toughness and will-to-win the likes of which I've never seen before, and doubt any of us will see again

Without these problems, Lance smokes the field again by 6-8 minutes. However, next year, Tyler may not fall, Ullrich may show up in better shape, and Beloki may last out the tour. It could be a real gun fight to the finish...

I can't wait!


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There are few people in sports that change the way a particular sport is played. One case is Tiger Woods. Look at what he had done for golf. How many professional golfers lifted weights before Tiger, payed serious attention to nutrition, or only played selected tournaments? And look how much better the guys chasing him are today because of his efforts.

Lance is a far superior athlete to Tiger Woods, so his is a much better example of how one man and his team/coaches has changed the way it's done. Period. Guys like Ullrich, Beloki, Hamilton, Vinikourov, and who knows how many others your riders coming along will only be better because of Lance. The only reason next year will be close is because they will try to mimic the LA/Carmichael system, train for only one race, and attempt to build a team around the leader. And I bet all of them drive the course before next year's final time trial.

Hats off to Lance and the team. It's a different game, my friends.
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Putting aside posturing for a minute, what happened happened, and happened no differently. Lance crashed, Lance got hurt, Lance was not at 100%, etc. The others were strong and in shape, but some of them faded, and some of them crashed. Lance was more vulnerable than ever before, for reasons mentioned above. With all due respect to him and his outstanding abilities, he got very lucky this year.

Something to keep in mind, and this is both awe-inspiring and amazing, is that despite all this, I read that this was the fastest Tour ever, and that his average speed was something like 26 mph over the ~2130 miles of the Tour.

What I infer from all this is that if he shows up next year, feeling strong, then he will be untouchable, no matter what the other guys bring.

------------------------------------------------------------
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Lance (well actually Chris Carmichael) has changed the way people train for endurance sports, specifically the TDF.
I would argue that CC has not innovated any new training program. He simply adapted generally accepted training principles to LA's post-cancer career. From a lecture I heard CC give, LA was unwilling/unmotivated to do hard interval training after coming back from cancer; so CC's new-and-improved training program for LA contained a lot of really long aerobic stuff. The end result was the same - increased lactate threshold.
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [rhpreston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am already jonesin' ... the 24 hour a day tour de france channel has changed back to boogin sports. I WANT MY TDF!!!
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [rhpreston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My impression of Lance Armstrong is that he tells it exactly like it is. If he's feeling poorly, he says so. When he felt better, he said so. The only time I've seen him "fake" is for the benefit of the cameras at the bottom of a climb last year. He simply grimaced for a shot as if he were really hurting. He even chuckled about it at the top after he rocketed up that very climb and said something like: I guess that (fake grimace) won't work again!

Everyone can quit trying to outguess what he means when he says something. It reminds me of so many people that can't ever take what someone says at face value. If someone says, "You look nice in that dress." It shouldn't be followed by, "What do you mean by that? You think I'm fat? You don't like my other dresses?"

LA said this tour took more out of him than he expected. He said he missed racing in May when his normal tune-up race was cancelled. He said he thought USPS was the best team ever assembled, and that he needed the team in order to win. He said he was dehydrated and had a bad day in the TT that he lost. He said he was scared when Beloki crashed, and that it hurt his heart for Beloki to be injured and out of the race. He said he "sat up" and took it very cautiously when Ullrich crashed...look at the replay, that's what he did. He said he usually starts training for the next year's race on Monday, but this year he's going to have to take a bit of a pause, because it took so much out of him.

LA may be a complex person, but he has a simple way of communicating. He speaks his mind at the time, no matter the audience. Believe it when he says something...nobody I know of is more forthright in his statements.

I hope he goes for six next year. If he says he's not feeling good or if he says he's going to kick some tail or if he says he's just not sure about his chances, I'd believe he's telling just as he sees it. The man just isn't about wasting time with hidden nuances in his statements.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
Quote Reply
what if? [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Lance is a far superior athlete to Tiger Woods"

really? hum...

what if jan would have had a jet pack? what if lance had been shot in the knee on stage 8? what if tyler hamilton became a goat?

what is this 'what if' crap? lance was the superior cyclist. it can't be argued. the best won. the second best got second. aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"2- Lance did close to 35% of the work in the TTT, because he wanted to add that to his resume. That took him out of the next two days, for want of recovery. "

Hmm. Didn't the TTT give him slightly more than his winning margin?

"Without these problems, Lance smokes the field again by 6-8 minutes."

To paraphrase customerjon, if my aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle. I think LA individually is beatable, unlike in the past, but this year he had the team best fitted for the purpose of putting one guy at the top of the podium. Put LA on Team Bianchi and Jan on USPS and I think the results may have been reversed. The question is whether any other teams will be built specifically to win the TDF next year, and whether there is enough talent to go around for more than one or two to do that.

One thing's for sure. I can't wait for next year.
Quote Reply
Re: Thoughts about TdF #5 [Chubby Hubby] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
>Lance is a far superior athlete to Tiger Woods

Huh?
Quote Reply
Flame this!! [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Hmm. Didn't the TTT give him slightly more than his winning margin?"
- - Yes, but that only proves that you missed my point. It took so much more out of him than he got for it. The same effort a day later in the mountains may have gotten him twice as much, and left him with gas to do it again the next day. Maybe you don't understand what the average effort level (as in % MHR) is in the peleton, v. the TTT. In th3 peleton, they ride in zone 2 most of the day. In the TTT, they ride near threshold for five minutes at a time, then go all out for 10-30 seconds... or in Lance's case, 40-50 seconds.

"To paraphrase customerjon, if my aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle. I think LA individually is beatable, unlike in the past, but this year he had the team best fitted for the purpose of putting one guy at the top of the podium. Put LA on Team Bianchi and Jan on USPS and I think the results may have been reversed. "
- - Again demonstrating a lack of cognative ability. Your aunt growing a johnson isn't likely. The mishaps that crossed Lance's path were genuine possiblities before they occurred. The fact that he overcame them demonstrates that he continues to be unbeatable despite your unsupportable assertion to the contrary. He's the man; everyone was gunning for him, even ganging up on him, and he still won. NO, he is not beatable. Not this time. Perhaps you don't understand how European cycling works, but Bianchi DID put together the best they could muster, with the express intention of putting Jan in the top spot.

"The question is whether any other teams will be built specifically to win the TDF next year..."
- - Yes, all of them


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I bet Jan wishes he'd been able to take Beltrans with him.

I think he was the difference in the support climbers.
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [BLACKSHEEP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe, but I'll bet Jan's team wishes they had Lance!!

Fact is that, head to head, Lance smoked Beloki Last year, and Jan this year and two years ago. Sure it's a team gig, but when they got to that last bit of climb, Lance dug deep and laid down something to which the others couldn't respond. After all those hours of riding, it came down to who had the gas to go at the end. For five years running, the answer has been "Lance Armstrong."


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Geez, I wasn't trying to flame anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. Maybe it's my lack of cognitive ability.

I still stand by my contention that the team around Armstrong had a lot do do with his winning. Since we're throwing out what-ifs, what if the US taxpayers decided that funding a European bicycle racing team wasn't a good use of their money and the USPS team folded? Or, as has been known to happen, they just get pissed off at each other? Spread these riders among the field and force LA to put together a different team and the results may have been different.

As for Team Bianchi, I don't remember them from the Giro d' Italia so maybe they focus their whole year on the TDF like USPS. Maybe you're right and I don't know anything about European cycling, but I can't tell you how many times I saw a sea of blue at the front of the peleton with one yellow jersey and ONE green one, or should I say celeste? To those of us who are uninformed, it looked like LA got a lot more support from his team than Ullrich.
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [BillT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
[quote]what if the US taxpayers decided that funding a European bicycle racing team wasn't a good use of their money and the USPS team folded?[/quote]

US Postal is owned by a California company, Tailwind Sports. If US Postal decided that they were no longer willing, or able, to sponsor a team, then Tailwind would go about rounding up another sponsor to replace them. I have read that Berry Floor for one is interested in becoming the lead sponsor. I expect there would be many others. No one is depending on the US taxpayer.

I agree with you that the team around Armstrong had a lot to do with his winning. This team includes not just the other riders, but also the directors, mechanics, souigneurs, and the management team of Tailwind Sports. I think it is a very impressive operation, but I also think that it isn't an accident that Lance rides for a team that is so well managed.

Biachi was sponsored by Coast up until about the beginning of June. At that time the financial troubles that they had been having caught up with them and they were decertified. That is why they lost Beltrain to Postal.

Surely this turmoil at Coast/Biachi did not help Ulrich in his concentration for the tour, but on the other hand, Ulrich could have gone to CSC and not have had to worry about this, stayed our of nightclubs and stayed with Telekom, or chosen a team that wasn't on the high wire in terms of finances. (Apparently some of Coast's problems had to do with paying Ulrich salary.)

I think that Lance and Jan are both responsible for the teams that they have built/chosen to ride with. Lance hasn't left anything to chance; Jan seems to thrive on chance.

In the end, that choice made a difference.

--

Ray
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [MustardSauce] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Regarding US Postal sponsorship, last year there was a bit of hoopla in the press stating that the USPS spends $25 Million a year to keep the Postal team going. I can't verify that, but as far as I am concerned, it's advertising dollars well spent. Especially when you see all the other companies' commercials featuring Lance in the USPS jersey, and all the pictures in the paper with Lance's smiling face above a blue and yellow eagle.

It does appear that USPS is trying to distance themselves from the team though. This year it's the USPostal team presented by Berry Floor, in another couple of years, it will be Team Berry Floor.

------------------------------------------------------------
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [MustardSauce] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:

In the end, that choice made a difference.
Thanks for the background info. This was the only point I was trying to make.
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have always wondered about the USPostal sponsorship and why they seemed compelled to do it. Thanks for the background and true story behind the money. As to good advertising though, the United States Postal Service has a bit of a monopoly, or at least they are not subjected to the same competitive pressures as other businesses. I would rather see team FedEx, now that's a good US team name. I do think Berry Floor got a great deal of good press though.

For the record, I have nothing against the USPS, it's workers, history, etc. and the opinions expressed are not those of this station, its advertisers, ...
Quote Reply
Re: Flame this!! [Chubby Hubby] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's kind of interesting, because over the weekend I was reading that while we Americans are a little cynical about the USPS, in Europe the people think the USPS is rock solid.

My opinion(and that's all it is) is that while the accounting and business practices of the Postal Service may be questionable, they get every bill I drop in any letter box to whereever it's supposed to go in 1-2 days for 37 cents. The collectors haven't come by, so I'm not complaining.

------------------------------------------------------------
Quote Reply