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Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing
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What can I expect in terms of durability? I currently use the Zipp Tangente Course 23mm on my Zipp 808 and the Tangente Course 25mm on my Zipp Super 9. I've got the 24mm Turbo Cottons on order but should I be looking at something else?

Thanks!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
What can I expect in terms of durability? I currently use the Zipp Tangente Course 23mm on my Zipp 808 and the Tangente Course 25mm on my Zipp Super 9. I've got the 24mm Turbo Cottons on order but should I be looking at something else?

Thanks!

IME, they are every bit as durable as the Zipps, and surprisingly long-wearing as well.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Where did you buy them from? I've been looking to get some my race in 6 weeks.

blog
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have them yet. My local shop put in an order. I have no idea when they will get here

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I've got the 24mm Turbo Cottons on order but should I be looking at something else?

FYI. Every aero test I've seen on "open tubulars" shows poor performance. TCs too.

If there was enough of a Crr benefit to overcome this, then maybe they'd be a good choice for racing. But we can get tires that have low Crr and good aero properties, both.

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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone run the tubeless versions?
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [alexer03] [ In reply to ]
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Tubeless Turbo Cotton?

I haven't been on tubeless tires in several years.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I'm using the tubular version , don't find em significant faster (just by feel btw) than the conti competition or veloflex Carbon but they wear out damn fast. Don't think to extend the 1000 km.

-shoki
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I am very eager to see rolling resistance + aero test on this tire, but suspect it won't come out ahead. The 22mm SWorks turbo looks good though.

Where have you seen aero tests of the turbo cottons? I would love to check that out.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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They make a tubeless S Works (not turbo cotton) but the TPI of the casing is pretty darn high for a tubeless tire. 180 or 220tpi.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
They make a tubeless S Works (not turbo cotton) but the TPI of the casing is pretty darn high for a tubeless tire. 180 or 220tpi.

You say that like you think it would be a bad thing.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
What can I expect in terms of durability? I currently use the Zipp Tangente Course 23mm on my Zipp 808 and the Tangente Course 25mm on my Zipp Super 9. I've got the 24mm Turbo Cottons on order but should I be looking at something else?

Thanks!

So your conclusion is front and rear Turbo Cotton for 2016? Let the tire debate begin! Rapp said use the Turbo Cotton if i remember correct from last yrs threads, others said Conti SS but no definitive tests if i remember correct. Is anyone coming out with new tires in 2016? As of now i have 2 conti TT and 1 Turbo Cotton to mix and match.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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this has already been done.

Edit: adding some commentary to explain what I *think* these charts mean

work by Tom A. at www.bikeblather.blogspot.com

1) Interesting chart showing that a) the Roval CLX 64 w/ Turbo 22mm is a very competitive wheel, and that the HED Jet 6+ is comparable with same tire, and b) the 24.25mm wide TC is about 2.5 watts slower than the Turbo 22mm, tracking with my SWAG ROT that 1mm = 1 aero watt in tire width. Also confirms what we already know about vulcanized vs. open tubular tire designs at wide yaw angles.



2) OTOH here you have data showing the TC 24mm is equal to another tire, the so-called aero gold standard GP4000s 23mm at zero yaw. Also interesting is that the Turbo 24mm is slightly faster, leading me to believe that the Turbo series of tires have some magic aero properties that their Turbo Cotton "open tubular", a known poor performing design with regard to aero, does not have.



That said, the tire is a system, with both aero and Crr (and watts to spin, another story). This chart shows how good the Turbo Cotton 24mm tire really is with Crr data overlaid. The 24mm Turbo Cotton loses a watt or two from aero penalties, but gains 5 watts back at 40kph and 7 watts back at 50kph.



4) finally we have a chart depicting aero, Crr, and weighted yaw angles based on Mavic testing showing that at pretty much all speeds, the Turbo Cotton 24mm is fastest as compared to the "gold standard" GP4000s 23mm.



All this, combined with the knowledge that GP4000s 23mm = Turbo 24mm < Turbo 22mm in aero (first + second charts) and likely same in Crr (Tom A.'s Crr charts), leads me to believe that there's never really a good reason to run the GP4000s 23mm anymore. Same conclusion when you process Zipp's data that 22mm Attack > 23mm GP4000s > 25mm GP4000s in aero, and also Tom A.'s data that shows the GP SS 23mm is not too bad aero wise and VERY fast Crr wise.


Orbilius wrote:
I am very eager to see rolling resistance + aero test on this tire, but suspect it won't come out ahead. The 22mm SWorks turbo looks good though.

Where have you seen aero tests of the turbo cottons? I would love to check that out.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Last edited by: ericM40-44: Feb 10, 16 7:57
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [shoki] [ In reply to ]
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shoki wrote:
I'm using the tubular version , don't find em significant faster (just by feel btw) than the conti competition or veloflex Carbon but they wear out damn fast. Don't think to extend the 1000 km.

"Feel" is highly unreliable re tire rolling resistance. I do my own roller testing, and I find that my subjective impression of a relatively slow tire seems to be reasonably borne out by my testing, but I have very little ability to differentiate between tires by feel once they get to a moderately high level of performance.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [alexer03] [ In reply to ]
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alexer03 wrote:
Does anyone run the tubeless versions?

I have a set of the S-works Turbo Road Tubeless (the only Specialized tubeless offerings I'm aware of). I love tubeless ('cuz I have a lot of really crappy chip and seal roads and I feel more comfortable running tubeless at lower pressures than I would a tubed tire) and I was not dissatisfied with my usual favorite tubeless tire, the IRC Pro Tubeless Lite. I just decided to give the Specialized tires a try after reading a good review and, go figure, they're IRC Pro Tubeless Lites with a file-type tread pattern added. They're nice tires that seem to roll well, last a long time and can take a lot of abuse (I don't hesitate to ride crappy road shoulders full of debris or to go down a gravel road here or there).

I wouldn't use them as my go-to race tires on a smooth, 40k TT course. But I've done Beach 2 Battleship a few times and there's a lot of marginal chip and seal and other iffy pavement on that course and these might be a good choice -- keep the psi low and keep the body fresher for the run.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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BBLOEHR wrote:
BryanD wrote:
What can I expect in terms of durability? I currently use the Zipp Tangente Course 23mm on my Zipp 808 and the Tangente Course 25mm on my Zipp Super 9. I've got the 24mm Turbo Cottons on order but should I be looking at something else?

Thanks!


So your conclusion is front and rear Turbo Cotton for 2016? Let the tire debate begin! Rapp said use the Turbo Cotton if i remember correct from last yrs threads, others said Conti SS but no definitive tests if i remember correct. Is anyone coming out with new tires in 2016? As of now i have 2 conti TT and 1 Turbo Cotton to mix and match.


I believe it was already touched on in another thread but Vitorria has the new Graphine tires (23mm) that are rumored to be as fast or faster than the TCs, handle better AND have far better puncture protection.

All speculation though, haven't seen a single review.
Last edited by: BrentwoodTriGuy: Feb 9, 16 11:34
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I came across this on the train to work today: http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...-corsa-graphene-2016.

This test has them on par with the GP4000s. They look pretty, so that's worth something!

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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I have the corsa graphene tires in 25c on my road bike right now with latex tubes. Very nice tire. These aren't the corsa speed tires that should test similar to the turbo cotton in rolling resistance.

If the speed model has similar construction as the corsa, I don't think it will be an aero winner. There is a distinct lip from the tread to the casing.

From the looks of the charts posted the turbo cotton loses in aero more than it gain in crr.

Looks like I will be using the sWorks turbos in 24/22 this year.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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I think the S-Works Turbos find a great balance. I am running them 24/26 on my road bike and am a big fan.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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BrentwoodTriGuy wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
BryanD wrote:
What can I expect in terms of durability? I currently use the Zipp Tangente Course 23mm on my Zipp 808 and the Tangente Course 25mm on my Zipp Super 9. I've got the 24mm Turbo Cottons on order but should I be looking at something else?

Thanks!


So your conclusion is front and rear Turbo Cotton for 2016? Let the tire debate begin! Rapp said use the Turbo Cotton if i remember correct from last yrs threads, others said Conti SS but no definitive tests if i remember correct. Is anyone coming out with new tires in 2016? As of now i have 2 conti TT and 1 Turbo Cotton to mix and match.


I believe it was already touched on in another thread but Vitorria has the new Graphine tires (23mm) that are rumored to be as fast or faster than the TCs, handle better AND have far better puncture protection.

All speculation though, haven't seen a single review.

Must have missed that thread! To good to be true! When is it coming out so i can buy it :-)

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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GP4000s are like 7 watts per pair slower that turbo cottons. That website is not the best source of info

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [bobby11] [ In reply to ]
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bobby11 wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
They make a tubeless S Works (not turbo cotton) but the TPI of the casing is pretty darn high for a tubeless tire. 180 or 220tpi.


You say that like you think it would be a bad thing.

Not at all! It's an awesome thing!
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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I am going to put those on my gravel grinder. Look like awesome tubeless tires.
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Great durability I use them and think they're great but I might try supersonics this year I know those are super fast
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Re: Those who use S-Works Turbo Cottons for racing [eggplantOG] [ In reply to ]
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so you would run the SS over the Cotton?

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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