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The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel
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I now have a small amount of experience riding a deep front wheel, so I thought that I would write the post that I wish I had seen before buying wheels. I know the rest of you ride a 90mm front through hurricanes, this post is not for you. This post is for the quiet lurker on the forum who has never ridden a deep set of wheels and is unsure how they will feel.


To start with, I have the bike handling skills of a drunken lemur, or the average MOP triathlete. I decided that with as hard as I have been working, it was time to get a set of deep wheels. I ordered an 80mm front and a rear disc. The disc came in immediately. The 80 front has still not arrived so I borrowed my wife's 60mm front.

Here is what I found (I'm 172 lbs and riding a P3X, 60mm front, disc in back.):
  • In crosswinds up to 15 mph I was perfectly comfortable.
  • In crosswinds 15-20 mph I was initially pretty skittish but got comfortable after 45 minutes. After 2 or 3 rides I am very comfortable and am definitely faster on this setup.
  • Over 20 mph it starts to get questionable if I am faster with the deep front or not. During a heavy gust I will sometimes pause in pedaling or come out of the aerobars.
  • Over 25 mph I am so uncomfortable with the deep front that a shallow front would definitely be faster. With a deep front I spend a lot of time out of the aerobars.
  • It isn't actually the wind speed that makes much difference, it is the variability. You ride along beside some trees and have 0 wind, then the trees end and you are suddenly hit with a 25 mph crosswind. Or you are riding across wide open fields and doing OK with a 20 mph wind, then get hit with a 30 mph gust.
  • The disc wheel feels "different" in heavy winds but never scary. There were a couple of moments that I could have sworn it felt like a sail. A few moments that I could feel a sideways pressure, but mostly, I just forgot it was there.

At this point, I doubt that the 80mm front will be significantly different than the 60mm front but I will update this post if I ever get the wheel.

OK, I finally got the 80mm front and have ridden it for a couple of weeks. There really isn't much difference between a 60mm front and an 80mm front. The wind speed today was 14 mph gusting to 22 mph. The workout today was 5x4-minute intervals at 105% FTP. I only came out of the aerobars once due to the wind. It wasn't "fun" but I was able to do the whole workout. After about 45 minutes I felt a lot more comfortable. This is probably the breakpoint where I might go with a shallower wheel for a race.
Last edited by: tomljones3: Sep 22, 21 12:31
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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Like everything else in triathlon, you just need to put the time in with a deep rim. Learn to relax your arms and absorb the gusts. Keep pressure on the pedals. After a while you can handle all but the worst days and then you change the front, no biggie.

The disc, unless really heavy winds, makes you more stable...

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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If this forum had a like button I would click it. Thanks for sharing. Great read for folks newer to deep section wheels.

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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing. I have a couple of quick questions, if you don't mind.

What do you weigh?
Also, how strong of a crosswind are you talking about?

I'm a light rider (<140 lbs) and I have Jet 6+ on my tri-bike. I am in windy Chicago and ride along Lake Michigan a lot. It is pretty common to have a a break in the houses lining the lake that results in a crosswind off the water that grabs the front wheel and moves me more than I would like. I'm much better than I was at first in terms of staying relaxed and not overcorrecting, but the experience has made me hesitant to go any deeper.
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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This is a great post, even though I am generally in the "this post is not for you" category. My super huge supplement to this is that many riders adjust to what it feels like the more they can ride. And moderate gusts become a non-issue. IMO, gusts 20+ MPH make everyone tighten the sphincter.

I rode a sprint triathlon a week ago in what was the mega residual storm that swept across the southeast. The wind gusts were definitely above the 20 MPH range (maybe over 25). At that level, I was definitely uncomfortable and rode out of aero to avoid risk. I would definitely have ridden faster with a much shallower wheel.

This weekend I rode with a few 10-15 MPH crosswind gusts. Most were nothing. But I one was a minor pucker moment when I went from trees to inside an exposed bridge that was essentially a cage. I imagined the mess if I had swerved into the cage side.
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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Great thread, thanks for posting your thoughts. I'm 150 lbs and always felt that anything above 60mm was too deep. I've been considering a 78mm/Disc combo from Aerocoach but have been very hesitant to move towards the 78mm front depth. Sounds like it would be worth the aero gains but will require some experience and seat time on my part.
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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tomljones3 wrote:
At this point, I doubt that the 80mm front will be significantly different than the 60mm front but I will update this post if I ever get the wheel.

I bet you you'll be able to notice it (all else being equal).
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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That is a really useful post, thanks a lot.
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a set of front and rear Flo 90's, 3 years ago, and rode them for a little over 2 years. I WISH I would have read a thread like this, before wasting my money. I bought them with very little research, because they looked bad ass, and all the pros had deep wheels. I raced them in 2 IM events, and several local events. I recently gave them away, to a much younger faster rider. I'm over 60 now, weigh 150, and I decided my life and safety was more important than a few seconds in a race. I had too many close calls, and I got to the point it was just a matter of time before something bad happened. Especially since I live in Kansas, where the winds are routinely 30-40 mph, and 20 mph is almost calm to us. The front wheel would aerodynamically "stall"... where the wind would put pressure on it, and I would have to counter with force on the base bars (riding on the aero bars was totally no way in high winds), and then all of a sudden, all the force would be gone in the stall, and the wheel would turn dramatically in the opposite direction. I had to concentrate like a mofo, and react instantly, or I was in the ditch or in traffic. And my balance and reaction time is not what it used to be. I recently went to a set of 32mm aluminum wheels for training, and I have 50mm wheels I can race on if I want. Going to the shallower rims has been a breath of fresh air, and I can enjoy my training again, and not worry about crashing.

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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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It also depends on rim design, doesn't it? I had a set of Flashpoints (like the old Zipp design) and the 60mm front was super sketchy. Now got Firecrest 404 (is 58mm) and that's far far better in crosswinds.
Last edited by: Dilbert: May 3, 21 9:41
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
It also depends on rim design, doesn't it? I had a set of Flashpoints (like the old Zipp design) and the 60mm front was super sketchy. Now got Firecrest 404 (is 58mm) and that's far far better in crosswinds.


Yes, the newer shapes handle crosswinds much better. The older "V" rims are the worst, the hybrid-toroidals (i.e. pre-firecrest) are better, the "pill shaped" (ex. firecrest, FLO) are MUCH better, and the "whale fin" (ex. NSW, PDW) are a slight improvement on that.

My roadie had HED Jet6s (pill shaped), while my tri bike has an old Cosmic Carbone (50mm) "V" shaped rim for training. The HEDs handle much better in crosswinds than the CC despite being deeper. If fact, my old 90mm HED hybrid toroidal handles better than the 50mm CC.

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Last edited by: Titanflexr: May 4, 21 14:18
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Re: The post I needed - Newbie on a deep front wheel [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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excellent post, thank you..

I am 165 when actually racing, currently 175, ride a Cervelo Dual 60mm front with disc cover at back. No expert here, but I have not found this a big problem in winds. The disc gets pushed sideways, the front is not significantly worse than an open wheel.

At plus-25mph winds with gusts, there's no way to ride any bike/wheelset comfortably.. we're all drunken lemurs then ;-)

Original front was a Zipp 440, briefly a Mavic Cosmic Carbone, currently Bontrager Aeolus (Greek god of the wind) vintage 2012 or so.
The Aeolus is noticeably better handling than the older wheels, as Dilbert and Titanflexr mention..

Dean T wrote:
Especially since I live in Kansas, where the winds are routinely 30-40 mph, and 20 mph is almost calm to us.

The windiest race I ever did, was the Flint Hills in Kansas, had to ride leaning over..
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