Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Barchettaman wrote:
With all the crap that triathletes seem to love to attach to their rigs the lack of a well-thought-out accessories mounting system seems a curious omission.

I truly won't be surprised if at some point we see a T-Track like mounting system embedded within every friggin tube of a tri bike.


Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Is the Fuji Norcom Gay going to be a much cleaner, more hip, stylish and fashionable version of this?


float , hammer , and jog

Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Post of the year. :D
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [Sawchuck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
By the time Shimano announced it's internal battery, we'd already opened our carbon molds and it was too late to change the seatpost and seat tube to accomidate the internal battery. We're already looking how to integrate the Di2 battery somewhere into the frame.

Regarding the brakes, when set up properly with the wider profile rims that are common on the market, you don't need to touch the brakes during a wheel change. Vertical dropouts help simplify wheel changes and something that most Tri/TT bikes don't have.

Thanks for the comments.

Steven Fairchild

Steven Fairchild
Global Road Product Manager
Advanced Sports Inc/Fuji
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You need to look beyond our stack and reach figures to understand the adjustability of the cockpit. Yes there are some with greater ranges of stack/reach, but not many with the number of stems and different angles. Plus the Norcom Straight doesn't lock you into a specific bar, you can use any 31.8mm bar in the market which adds to the adjustability of the cockpit.

Thanks for the feedback, Steven Fairchild

Steven Fairchild
Global Road Product Manager
Advanced Sports Inc/Fuji
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [velothree] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
velothree wrote:
You need to look beyond our stack and reach figures to understand the adjustability of the cockpit. Yes there are some with greater ranges of stack/reach, but not many with the number of stems and different angles. Plus the Norcom Straight doesn't lock you into a specific bar, you can use any 31.8mm bar in the market which adds to the adjustability of the cockpit.

Thanks for the feedback, Steven Fairchild

Im 6'3" w/ a 36" inseam. If I'm riding a 58 D6 right now, what size would I want an XL (57)?

Great looking bike, I'm super excited.
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [slow123] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's very difficult to recommend a size based on your height. I'd suggest taking measurements from your current set up (if you like the set up) and see where that would fall with the new bike. More than likely you'd be a 57cm but if you want to attain a lower and shorter position, the 55 could be an option. If you have questions, a fit at a competent shop would be in order.

Steven Fairchild
Global Road Product Manager
Advanced Sports Inc/Fuji
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [velothree] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
velothree wrote:
It's very difficult to recommend a size based on your height. I'd suggest taking measurements from your current set up (if you like the set up) and see where that would fall with the new bike. More than likely you'd be a 57cm but if you want to attain a lower and shorter position, the 55 could be an option. If you have questions, a fit at a competent shop would be in order.

Thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [velothree] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is one of the things I love about this site.
We all start nitpicking a product, and the product manager himself chimes in!

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Steven. It's a privilege to have you & your industry peers around.

Now, who designed that aerobar? And more importantly, have they been taken outside and shot (ideally in front of their family) yet?

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [velothree] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
velothree wrote:
You need to look beyond our stack and reach figures to understand the adjustability of the cockpit. Yes there are some with greater ranges of stack/reach, but not many with the number of stems and different angles. Plus the Norcom Straight doesn't lock you into a specific bar, you can use any 31.8mm bar in the market which adds to the adjustability of the cockpit.


Thanks for the feedback, Steven Fairchild


Don't worry that I'm not looking beyond Frame X,Y
I really like the sliding vertical dropouts, I've been waiting for someone to do that for a long time.
And I like the 2.5 - looks like a fearsome contender at that pricepoint. I won't have to live in fear of the LBS calling and asking me to come in (as a consultant fitter) to set up a D6 (ranks alongside the Look 695 for groan inducement).
For someone wanting a nice tri bike in the entry pricepoint I'd have fewer qualms about using aeropocket spacers to get the stack up. But unless you can show data that putting the stem above the TT has no deleterious effect I'm not going to view the spacers as a viable option for my speed oriented clients.
Likewise the idea of flipping the provided stem - no one is going to think that a tri bike with a +17Deg stem is a superbike.

As a first run through on comparing the 'fit cloud' I've made some assumptions based on what I can see.
Pad offset 40mm (rear of pad behind bar centre)
Pad stack min 30mm
Pad stack increment 5mm up to 40mm total
Stem lengths 80-90, angles -8 or -17
Headset cover 8mm
Steerer clamp height 40mm
I would be keen to get accurate data from you to do this properly and revise the graph below.

Pad X,Y measured to rear of pad
Comparing Norcom Straight with each stem length and spacer increment on every size (the unlikelihood of a 130mm stem on a small notwithstanding)
to the P5 with the Aduro bar.



Cervelo tell us that the different bar configs are very close aerodynamically, so there is no limitation on using what suits for a client who is looking for speed. Similarly, the under stem spacers mimic the shape of the stem and there is no fear of popping out of a shrouded area as the stem is always higher than the frame. So the fit cloud shown gives the position options while maintaining superbike setup. Obviously using other bars opens up a whole new range of positions.

The intersection of the blue lines is my personal Pad X,Y - I'm a little shorter than Matt Reed (and a lot heavier) running 20cm of saddle-pads drop in a UCI position. From what I can see I would not be able to ride the ML with the stock bars. Or any size in a superbike configuration.
I'm willing to be corrected and will amend the graph as soon as the data is available. Both component coordinates and data showing that aeropocket spacers or stem flipping will not induce an aero penalty.
But at this point it looks like you would have saved money and increased utility with 3 stem sizes and a better pad cup design.


Connect - Velogic Fit l Facebook l Twitter
Or - Speedtheory l Facebook l Twitter
Last edited by: cyclenutnz: May 2, 13 2:58
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The whole 2 series has really competitive pricing. Nicely done to Fuji in that regard.
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
interesting work, wish you would have substituted the 3T Ventus or TriRig Alpha/Sigma combo in there as I think no right-minded speed oriented athlete will be running those OEM bars and stem

I think this bike is a home run with one of those two bars, albiet probably on the long and low end of the spectrum unlike the P5

cyclenutnz wrote:
velothree wrote:
You need to look beyond our stack and reach figures to understand the adjustability of the cockpit. Yes there are some with greater ranges of stack/reach, but not many with the number of stems and different angles. Plus the Norcom Straight doesn't lock you into a specific bar, you can use any 31.8mm bar in the market which adds to the adjustability of the cockpit.


Thanks for the feedback, Steven Fairchild


Don't worry that I'm not looking beyond Frame X,Y
I really like the sliding vertical dropouts, I've been waiting for someone to do that for a long time.
And I like the 2.5 - looks like a fearsome contender at that pricepoint. I won't have to live in fear of the LBS calling and asking me to come in (as a consultant fitter) to set up a D6 (ranks alongside the Look 695 for groan inducement).
For someone wanting a nice tri bike in the entry pricepoint I'd have fewer qualms about using aeropocket spacers to get the stack up. But unless you can show data that putting the stem above the TT has no deleterious effect I'm not going to view the spacers as a viable option for my speed oriented clients.
Likewise the idea of flipping the provided stem - no one is going to think that a tri bike with a +17Deg stem is a superbike.

As a first run through on comparing the 'fit cloud' I've made some assumptions based on what I can see.
Pad offset 40mm (rear of pad behind bar centre)
Pad stack min 30mm
Pad stack increment 5mm up to 40mm total
Stem lengths 80-90, angles -8 or -17
Headset cover 8mm
Steerer clamp height 40mm
I would be keen to get accurate data from you to do this properly and revise the graph below.

Pad X,Y measured to rear of pad
Comparing Norcom Straight with each stem length and spacer increment on every size (the unlikelihood of a 130mm stem on a small notwithstanding)
to the P5 with the Aduro bar.



Cervelo tell us that the different bar configs are very close aerodynamically, so there is no limitation on using what suits for a client who is looking for speed. Similarly, the under stem spacers mimic the shape of the stem and there is no fear of popping out of a shrouded area as the stem is always higher than the frame. So the fit cloud shown gives the position options while maintaining superbike setup. Obviously using other bars opens up a whole new range of positions.

The intersection of the blue lines is my personal Pad X,Y - I'm a little shorter than Matt Reed (and a lot heavier) running 20cm of saddle-pads drop in a UCI position. From what I can see I would not be able to ride the ML with the stock bars. Or any size in a superbike configuration.
I'm willing to be corrected and will amend the graph as soon as the data is available. Both component coordinates and data showing that aeropocket spacers or stem flipping will not induce an aero penalty.
But at this point it looks like you would have saved money and increased utility with 3 stem sizes and a better pad cup design.

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Ventum Bicycles and Frames
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericM40-44 wrote:
interesting work, wish you would have substituted the 3T Ventus or TriRig Alpha/Sigma combo in there as I think no right-minded speed oriented athlete will be running those OEM bars and stem



I think we have to assume that the bar is reasonably fast - they wouldn't have been able to get into the superbike realm otherwise (assuming the claims about Norcom vs D6 and D6 vs P3 are accurate). Though I suspect they made more of an effort with cabling on the bike that went to the tunnel...

Ventus II is hard to find dimension data for. But it will really lock the bike into the lower right quadrant of the fit spectrum.
Sigma/Alpha I've taken a stab at using available info and measuring off pics. It would be good if Nick made full coordinate data available.

Note that this is using both the zero and +35mm stems (to illustrate the range of the bar) although - as mentioned earlier - I'd be loathe to use a stem that popped out the aeropocket on the Norcom.


The bar that would be really interesting to plot on here is the Vuka stealth. Which Zipp state has a fit cloud of 1920 points (P5 shown here is 1188) and has a lot of negative Pad X so the fit range will be huge. At the moment the setup I'd recommend for a fit/speed oriented athlete is an SC7 with Vuka Stealth.


It would be nice if aerobar manufacturers took fit more seriously - it's actually quite hard to find the information required to determine the range of most bars.
Having said that - would be good if they took design seriously - apart from a couple of good ones I still think the market is very weak in terms of product that offers a fit range without compromising aerodynamics (especially at lower price levels).


Connect - Velogic Fit l Facebook l Twitter
Or - Speedtheory l Facebook l Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
that's the weird thing.... conventional wisdom is that the major difference between any of the super bikes was the bar choice, especially the SC vs. P4 for example. Put a Ventus on a P4 or SC 7 and boom, difference goes away. Now, here we have a bike with a visibly huge frontal area bar. I know aerodynamics are not always intuitive, but still.

I get adjustability and meeting a wide array of fits, but I think that's ultimately marketing. I'd ride the fastest bike regardless. That being said, maybe the Oval bar is fast. Finally, I really wish the Zipp bar was more attractive... the new Pinarello bar looks like a prettier version of the Zipp one, and of course there's the Alpha.

cyclenutnz wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
interesting work, wish you would have substituted the 3T Ventus or TriRig Alpha/Sigma combo in there as I think no right-minded speed oriented athlete will be running those OEM bars and stem



I think we have to assume that the bar is reasonably fast - they wouldn't have been able to get into the superbike realm otherwise (assuming the claims about Norcom vs D6 and D6 vs P3 are accurate). Though I suspect they made more of an effort with cabling on the bike that went to the tunnel...

The bar that would be really interesting to plot on here is the Vuka stealth. Which Zipp state has a fit cloud of 1920 points (P5 shown here is 1188) and has a lot of negative Pad X so the fit range will be huge. At the moment the setup I'd recommend for a fit/speed oriented athlete is an SC7 with Vuka Stealth.

quote]

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Ventum Bicycles and Frames
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
When is this bike going to be available (aka when can I test ride it in a store)? I contacted Performance Bike yesterday and they hadn't even heard of it yet...
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericM40-44 wrote:
that's the weird thing.... conventional wisdom is that the major difference between any of the super bikes was the bar choice, especially the SC vs. P4 for example. Put a Ventus on a P4 or SC 7 and boom, difference goes away. Now, here we have a bike with a visibly huge frontal area bar. I know aerodynamics are not always intuitive, but still.

I get adjustability and meeting a wide array of fits, but I think that's ultimately marketing. I'd ride the fastest bike regardless. That being said, maybe the Oval bar is fast. Finally, I really wish the Zipp bar was more attractive... the new Pinarello bar looks like a prettier version of the Zipp one, and of course there's the Alpha.

cyclenutnz wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
interesting work, wish you would have substituted the 3T Ventus or TriRig Alpha/Sigma combo in there as I think no right-minded speed oriented athlete will be running those OEM bars and stem



I think we have to assume that the bar is reasonably fast - they wouldn't have been able to get into the superbike realm otherwise (assuming the claims about Norcom vs D6 and D6 vs P3 are accurate). Though I suspect they made more of an effort with cabling on the bike that went to the tunnel...

The bar that would be really interesting to plot on here is the Vuka stealth. Which Zipp state has a fit cloud of 1920 points (P5 shown here is 1188) and has a lot of negative Pad X so the fit range will be huge. At the moment the setup I'd recommend for a fit/speed oriented athlete is an SC7 with Vuka Stealth.

quote]

The Norcom, nor any frame it was tested against, had an aerobar installed. Only stem to reduce variability.

"One Line Robert"
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I hear what you're saying but it's not pertinent to my argument that

a) the success of many of the accepted pre-Norcom super bikes was truly due to the bars, not the frame. IOW, the SC9 and their awesome Bontrager integrated setup was not really all that better than the its peer (at the time) the P4 (quite the contrary) when the P4 had a comprable aerobar on it (Ventus), making a used SC7 and Ventus bar a very cheap alternative to the so-called super bikes. Same with the nose-cone Shiv

b) nobody will be using those bars

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Ventum Bicycles and Frames
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericM40-44 wrote:

a) the success of many of the accepted pre-Norcom super bikes was truly due to the bars, not the frame.


That argument doesn't really make sense. We already know that aero bar choice matters. There's no evidence to make me believe that the norcom is a superbike.
Last edited by: Nick_Barkley: May 2, 13 15:49
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [Nick_Barkley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
riiighhhht, but bike companies don't market aerobars, they market frames, and make claims about their frames compared to the competitors' frames while being secretive about their testing protocol or being open about it but having obviousl flaws in their testing.

Nick_Barkley wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:

a) the success of many of the accepted pre-Norcom super bikes was truly due to the bars, not the frame.


That argument doesn't really make sense. We already know that aero bar choice matters.

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Ventum Bicycles and Frames
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I understand what you're getting at.

I believe this is the best bang for your buck build and would beat >95% of the bikes I've seen here.
Trek SC 7
Vision Trimax aerobar with the upturns cut + Vision crab claws brake levers
Flo 6 Front + GP4000s 23mm
Wheel Cover rear- Vittoria Evo Slick or Triathlon or GP4000s
TriRig front brake
Latex Tubes
Bontrager Speed bottle on the ST
BTA bottle
Last edited by: Nick_Barkley: May 2, 13 17:31
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ah. Got ya. Honestly, we should really be talking about this new Pinarello.

"One Line Robert"
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [Nick_Barkley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nick_Barkley wrote:
I understand what you're getting at.

I believe this is the best bang for your buck build and would beat >95% of the bikes I've seen here.
Trek SC 7
Vision Trimax aerobar with the upturns cut + Vision crab claws brake levers
Flo 6 Front + GP4000s 23mm
Wheel Cover rear- Vittoria Evo Slick or Triathlon or GP4000s
TriRig front brake
Latex Tubes
Bontrager Speed bottle on the DT

BTA bottle

The Bontrager Speed bottle is more aero on the seat tube... says the guy who designed the bike so I'll trust his opinion on the matter. :-)

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My bad, I meant to say ST. D and S are right next to each other.
Last edited by: Nick_Barkley: May 2, 13 17:31
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Stems available from 80 through 130mm in 10mm increments. Angles you have correct. We offer 40mm (20mm x 2) of spacers that the end user can choose to place under the stem or not.. Ease of adjustability and not locking you into one aerobar is a goal. Also budget, you're comparing the Norcom Straight to a frame that starts at $4500.. We felt a easily adjustable bike that performed well in the wind tunnel and that was more affordable to most people would appeal to more potential consumers.

Steven Fairchild
Global Road Product Manager
Advanced Sports Inc/Fuji
Quote Reply
Re: The official Fuji Norcom Straight thread [velothree] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If this bike fits me, I can definitely say I will be considering it. That being said, the lack of attention to detail that has been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread is a bit disconcerting.
Quote Reply

Prev Next