or you can go here.
http://www.trimes.org/...on-tour-thread150.0/

Damon is quoted on another forum (cant remember which one now, would have to looking through my browser history!) that the difference in drag between the P5 tt and tri is only 17grams
About 7 for the shield over the brake and another 10 for the fork.

If that is true, then I wont be stumping up the extra cash for the tri version for the 2 watt difference, no matter how cool it looks :(

I'm not convinced. I would prefer the Trek Speed Concept over this bike any day. It just looks odd. chunky frame, then tiny chain stays and fork for the UCI legal version. The MBC and new Avanti are better looking bikes if looks are what you are going for. And lets face, most Tri geeks go for looks over performance!!

Hi Damon,

Thank you so much for your contributions. I am currently ride my 3rd P3 (54).....LOVE the bike.

My personal stack and reach are 638 and 507. So, on a P5 is optimal set up call for a 54 + High V, or 56 + Low(or high). Please help me, us, understand how to best make this fit selection.

Thank you,

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

[quote It just looks odd. chunky frame, then tiny chain stays

i am with you on this one.
i thought i would be odd person out here, but i think it is pretty ugly.
sorta looks like batman's motorcycle...

---

jjk
http://enduranceanimal.blogspot.com/

We wear spandex to race in. The bike is not the ugly part of the equation, besides aero trumps looks in any race that you are well racing.

jackmott wrote:

[quote yme I like others that have a bike that is already as fast as the P5

the ~75 gram reduction from the p4 is real...[/quote]

1. Nowhere have I read that it compares the P5 to P4, although that would be logical
2. If they did make the comparison, and used the brake calipers on the P5 TRI vs a P4 with standard caliper, well then the gains are even less assuming the P4 has a small centerpull.
3. Also, if comparing against a slower aerobar, again, the P5 claims are even less
4. This leaves a potential apples-apples comparison required to see the P5 UCI vs a P4, with matching kit, which I hope to see but I am not counting on it

And second to that, I believe there is a strong possibility that the P5 UCI with clean routing, a small centerpull (Omega/Hooker) and very aero bar (36cm Tula, original HED bar, Ventus) would be difficult to beat, and may come in in the same range as the faster configured P5 TRI.

Speculative, but reasonable.

• 
  
  
  
  

I believe I said this same thing on the other thread. If its a 15 second upgrade from a stock p4 w/race wheels... well its not that amazing sad to say. I have a simkins on the bike now but will be looking at the new brake once they release the hydraulic to road adaptor.

David, your stack is pretty much identical to mine, so Damon's reply to my question about the same choice between 54/HV and 56/Low is relevant to you, too:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=3731962#3731962


The thing to understand is that you achieve the stack by cutting the steerer and fitting spacers, so once you've done that you can't go back up, you can only go lower (assuming you did have to put some spacers in). For this reason I'm now thinking about using different bars, but still with the UCI-illegal version, to get some adjustability, as I know that even very small changes in my position change my drag by more than the difference between the P4 and P5. I.e. there is no point getting a faster bike if it prevents you from optimising your position, as your position is much more important than the bike.


The only difficulty I can see with getting the UCI-illegal P5 and swapping the bars is that the hydraulics would need disconnecting and reconnecting, which presumably requires some equipment that I don't have.

Sometimes you just have to "think outside the box" build your own parts ;-)


http://www.wicksaircraft.com/...bid=10345/index.html

Hi David,

As usual, most people can fit on two or sometimes three different frame sizes. For the same fit coordinates, there is no aero difference between the various handlebar options. So use the usual fit considerations to break the tie: will you go lower or higher in the future, or do you prefer the base bar in one place or the other, etc.

Cheers,

---

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Hi Ex, hi Steve,

Of course, cutting the steerer is final (unless you're willing to buy a new fork). But Jack has the right answer: you use an adjustable bar in the tunnel, test on the road with basic parts, then finalize before cutting.

It is possible to say you can go higher by changing the macro settings (swap in the High-V in place of the Low pads, for example) but that's a bigger jump in arm pad stack than you're talking about.

Interactions are possibly there but the body position probably trumps them.

Cheers,

---

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

yes


Yes, around a year ago I had the realization that the p4 was as good as the shiv and SC *without* a center pull. p4 is good stuff =)


in a way, but the aerobar is sort of part of the p5, though you could probably put it on some other bikes too. either way, you didn't have this aerobar till you had the p5 =)


its not hard to extrapolate what a center pull would do to the p4 numbers, and the ventus is unlikely much slower than this new bar. i bet its the same really.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Hi quick,

Dimensionally, the brake cover fits on the RT6TT brake (they share forgings with the RT8TT brake) but I'm not sure yet what distribution of the covers will be like.

Cheers,

---

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

I have a very hard time believing the UCI version front end that looks like this picture will be anywhere close to the drag of something like the Speed Concept at anything other then 0 degree yaw for this front end. There are a lot of gaps and bumps that can change the airflow around this area.

 

We wear spandex to race in. The bike is not the ugly part of the equation, besides aero trumps looks in any race that you are well racing.[/quote]
i don't know about you but i look great in spandex

---

jjk
http://enduranceanimal.blogspot.com/

Hi flyingirish,

It is a simple fork change. That's one of the driving considerations in the P5's design. THe motto "Simply Faster" includes the "Simply" part on purpose.

The switch is pretty straight forward: the fork has a standard 1 1/8" steerer (and the frame uses a standard headset). So a fork swap doesn't require any brake recabling, you just unscrew the brake mounting nut (which also follows the industry standard single center bolt) and re-attach your same brake to the other fork once it's in the frame.

Cheers,

---

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

You really need to get some I-Links? you could improve your cable routing a lot.

Knowing that Damon is following this thread, maybe he can tease out the P4 frame- P5 frame "apples-apples" direct differences, bar and brakes notwithstanding

It's these claims that I'd also like to have more clarity on

http://www.bikeradar.com/...e-full-details-32962
"claim it will save 6-11 watts (~30sec in 40km) over the latest generation of 'superbikes'."

and

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...-the-time-trial-bike
"...new aerobar on the P5...reducing drag by up to 40g"

which is similar to

http://road.cc/...ride-cerv%C3%A9lo-p5
"Cervélo’s figures say exposed cables can cause up to 40g of drag"

Will they fit the drilling on the top tube of a P4?

Do you ever give up. WOW.

thank science we have wind tunnels so we don't have to rely on what you believe!

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Yes, I do give up sometimes, but when things do not line up with logic, I think it should be pointed out. Like the movie said once 'You can not handle the truth'

Do not get me wrong, I think this is an awesone looking bike, there is just some areas that really look not so good compared to some others, that is all I am saying. It is not better in all areas like some of the Cervelo Lovers want to believe.