wow... those are pretty massive changes. This is exactly how I felt when Ford redesigned the focus. I never thought I'd say, "Damn, that Ford Focus is sick." Well... I never thought I'd say this either. I might fit a P3 perfectly.

I was thinking about this a lot last night... What makes any of us feel entitled to an "affordable" bike that's designed for performance at the top end of the sport?

What's more, why do so many of us seem to think that we're being inconvenienced when we look at a bike and scream "Those stack and reach numbers are AT LEAST a centimeter too long/short/high/low!"?

For decades, professionals rode heavy, flexy bikes with quill stems and "sub-obtimal" geometry -- and they did it faster than any of us can dream. Now, companies like 3T make their money on offering stems and bars that can get 99% of people to "fit" on any size bike (within reason) -- yet we don't cry that their stems only come in 100, 110, and 120 instead of those necessary in-betweens like 105, 113 and 118 to REALLY get us dialed.

Where's the line? We all make choices. Dev mentioned a high-spec VW vs an Audi. I'd argue that 99% of us only need a Honda Accord. You know why? Because we are not professional drivers. Should we start begging auto manufacturers to measure our arms and legs and install the driver's seat and steering wheel so that we no longer need adjustability? No. Like bikes, adjustability (and resale value) are king.

If any manufacturer put everything that every consumer wanted into its product, we couldn't afford to buy it, because they couldn't afford to produce it, and they go out of business. Then we're back to start-up companies that offer a utilitarian product designed to fit the masses. That's the way it's always worked, and I predict that within our own competitive lifetimes, that's not going to change in regard to bike production.

/rant.

By the way, tgarson, that wasn't directed at you -- just my thoughts on the situation in general :) I'll shut up and go ride my P2 now....

Thank you for size 45!
The geometry for this size looks ideal.

Now, when will this size be available?

[..] what was wrong with the old external BB cups?

Basically your saddle and bar height drop equal to the change in BB drop. So for two otherwise identical bikes (head tube height, etc.) except one with more bb drop and one with less, the higher bb drop will have a higher and the lower bb drop will have lower stack, respectively.


Decreases pedal clearance when pedaling through a corner (should NOT be an issue with non-fixed gear bikes), lowers your center of gravity by the amount of change. The lower cg is probably beneficial for handling, although in the millimeter amounts we're talking about, I'm not sure how much that *really* changes things. It also functionally shortens the chain line (VERY VERY MINOR)

In short: increasing BB drop is a good way to increase the stack of a bike without affecting the headtube length.

In short: increasing BB drop is a good way to increase the stack of a bike without affecting the headtube length.

I would just like to add that Cervelo has clearly made a goof on the naming of their new bike (as well as all of the publications covering the bike). It seems their calling it a P3. Its actually a P5-1.

Just though I'd help everyone sort out any confusion.

I was thinking about this a lot last night... What makes any of us feel entitled to an "affordable" bike that's designed for performance at the top end of the sport?

What's more, why do so many of us seem to think that we're being inconvenienced when we look at a bike and scream "Those stack and reach numbers are AT LEAST a centimeter too long/short/high/low!"?

For decades, professionals rode heavy, flexy bikes with quill stems and "sub-obtimal" geometry -- and they did it faster than any of us can dream. Now, companies like 3T make their money on offering stems and bars that can get 99% of people to "fit" on any size bike (within reason) -- yet we don't cry that their stems only come in 100, 110, and 120 instead of those necessary in-betweens like 105, 113 and 118 to REALLY get us dialed.

Where's the line? We all make choices. Dev mentioned a high-spec VW vs an Audi. I'd argue that 99% of us only need a Honda Accord. You know why? Because we are not professional drivers. Should we start begging auto manufacturers to measure our arms and legs and install the driver's seat and steering wheel so that we no longer need adjustability? No. Like bikes, adjustability (and resale value) are king.

If any manufacturer put everything that every consumer wanted into its product, we couldn't afford to buy it, because they couldn't afford to produce it, and they go out of business. Then we're back to start-up companies that offer a utilitarian product designed to fit the masses. That's the way it's always worked, and I predict that within our own competitive lifetimes, that's not going to change in regard to bike production.

/rant.

Hear hear on the Honda line!

I recall watching a Top Gear episode a few years ago and they compared a 70's Super Car (Ferrari or Aston Martin or something) with the then new Honda Accord V6. The Honda killed the supercar in every respect, including accelleration and cornering!

I still ride my P2K from 8 years ago, and to quote Slowman from his review of the P2K, "this bike is not what's keeping you off the podium"

None of us NEED Uber bike that's just come out, and reality, it really won't win us anything except an empty savings account, but we all WANT one, and given enough cash we can have one. Just because it's what we want, doesn't mean it needs to be affordable (by each individuals definition of affordable)

By the way, tgarson, that wasn't directed at you -- just my thoughts on the situation in general :) I'll shut up and go ride my P2 now....

Thinking along similar lines. All this talk about the New P3 is making me investigate the old SC7.

ding ding

the old p3 curve around the wheel design is old busted.

the new p3 and p5 and s5 is the new hotness.