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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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I think a lot of people are being too hard on WTC. If they really wanted to milk the Ironman cow they'd have a pricing scheme that goes something like:

From 14 months to 12 months before the race: $5000
Up to 10 months before the race: $4000
Up to 8 months before the race: $3000
Up to 6 months before the race: $2000
Up to 5 months before the race: $1500
Up to 4 months before the race: $1000
Less than 4 months before the race: $750


With the understanding that it may sell out at any time. No preferred pricing at any time for volunteers or people who just raced it. No cutting in line, first come first served online entries only.

And yet they don't do that because they're good corporate citizens and friends of the entire triathlon world.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [M~] [ In reply to ]
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The straw that broke the camel's back ?
Where's the Ironman Spirit in there ??

Join our "Say to to Ironman $$$ Sport Business" group on FB to disagree !!
http://www.facebook.com/...39068739298&ap=1

CU


I am going to collate the folks that join on that group and then cross reference them against the participant lists for the MDot races. Any predictions on how many of them will be on both lists?


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I joined that group but you won't find my name on an entrants list for an M-Dot race anytime soon.

.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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So am I the only one that thinks this is a whole bunch of drama about nothing? In the end I think only a handful of people will sign up for this and in two years we will have forgotten all about it. The rightious indignation around here has reached comical levels.

I did my first IM in 2000, it was very much a commercial endeavor then, and I'm glad it was. Most of the grass roots, non-profit races of the day are gone now. I look forward to bumping this thread in a year or two.

Thom


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No, you're not the only one. The new program is kind of a community fund option but prior to the event opening for general entry. I know people who did the community fund thing in the past and not one of them did it our of some feeling to contribute to local charity, they did it because the race sold out and they wanted in.

The pattern?

- WTC starts some "evil program/idea"
- internet trigeeks all cry out that the sky is falling
- The same internet trigeeks vow to only race independent irons
- independent irons see no increase in participant numbers
- WTC still sells out races

I sit back, listen to devil music and laugh my ass off at all the whiners who vowed to take action but did zilcho... tough talk with no follow through.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [aarondavidson] [ In reply to ]
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No one (beside that one guy) is saying anything against those who are foolish enough to pay this fee for the privelage of registering first. I think most of the anger is unfounded, or at least unwarranted and that most of it is coming from people that have never raced an IM or will never.

My issue with the fee is the value. I see no value in the added $1000. It really is not a VIP package, it is a sucker fee. I would gladly pay $1000 for an entry if I could choose at my leisure which race on the circuit I wanted to race next year.

People will pay the $1000 because they we will more special about themselves, but that is it (because without a special bib, no one else will know they are special). All the better for them. I just believe that the number of people that see value in the fee is not great, however WTC really does not lose anything by giving people the opportunity to pay more. You can already score 'vip' passes fairly easily.

What they should do is create a package similar to what the pro-entry package is. For unlimited racing, that would hurt competitors.

That is your opinion that the anger is unfounded. While yes, it does not affect 99% of us who do IM, it is a display of arrogance to allow others to 'cut the line'. Everyone knows WTC is all about the money, but to come out and lay those cards on the table is arrogance. people don't like arrogance, or being told "Other people can cut the line because they have more money." Corporations can make make money, but do it in a way that is not so arrogant. WTC now has a perception problem, and they have to make amends, or risk damaging the brand. They did so with me, as I was intending on signing up for Lanzarote next year. I'm out. I vote with my wallet.

BTW, have raced 4 IMs, so your comment about people complaining that haven't done an IM is not true, and suggest that most that are against this have indeed done multiple IMs.

To say WTC does not lose anything is not correct. Perception matters more facts. That is not an opinion, that is the truth.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [Hot Tamales] [ In reply to ]
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Well said. I've done 30+ Mdot races and 16 Mdot IMs. I can afford the $1000, but I'm not buying out of principle.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [ In reply to ]
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Uhm, yeah.

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [DavidC] [ In reply to ]
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Well said. I've done 30+ Mdot races and 16 Mdot IMs. I can afford the $1000, but I'm not buying out of principle.


Will you however continue to race Mdot races? I will. I will not however pay $1000 just for the right to pay more money. If you do choose to continue racing, then the program did not effect you, nor are you choosing to really make a decision, except a decision of inactivity to support your principle.

-- Aaron Davidson
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [uli] [ In reply to ]
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Uhm, yeah.

Uli,

Back in a different age, I used to get Christmas Card, personally signed by Ironman Hawaii Race Director Valerie Silk every year! That was cool!



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [uli] [ In reply to ]
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Uhm, yeah.

Hell yeah!
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
The straw that broke the camel's back ?
Where's the Ironman Spirit in there ??

Join our "Say to to Ironman $$$ Sport Business" group on FB to disagree !!
http://www.facebook.com/...39068739298&ap=1

CU


I am going to collate the folks that join on that group and then cross reference them against the participant lists for the MDot races. Any predictions on how many of them will be on both lists?


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I joined that group but you won't find my name on an entrants list for an M-Dot race anytime soon.

.

Uh unliess I misunderstood the video on ironman.com ironman(wtc) saw all the posts on facebook and other social media and is refunding the $1000 to everyone and canceling the program?
I think thats what he said... they were wrong??
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, I can't believe the public admission. I guess selling out the program wasn't worth all the negative publicity and uproar they were getting.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Too much headwind. But I loved their explanation for starting this program (opening up slots for others). Should have said that in the first place, right?

http://ironman.com/...access#axzz13gVMhFYm

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [uli] [ In reply to ]
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So if I interpret this correctly:

People were buying entries to multiple events in case they couldn't get into one or two of the events they wanted, and then not using their entries when they had their season finalized.

My offering this program it would free up 2500-3000 "new" spots because people would be assured a spot in the race they really want, and wouldn't buy extras.

And a transfer/refund policy wouldn't solve this problem?

I still don't think that policy would have opened more spots. If anything, people with the disposable income and access pass would buy more of the races so they have more options as race season gets closer.

Hoka One One - Field Service Rep
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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Impressively quick action...
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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If you'd like to be able to afford some things you currently can't then try working harder or smarter--maybe you'll get lucky too. Or maybe not--life is like that. Odds are nothing will happen unless you try.

But please get off your high horse and stop railing on people who can afford what the WTC charges (or Porsche or the Ritz) and are happy to do so. YOu'd do the same in a heartbeat if you could.
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I went to Michigan, University of, it was and is full of Elitist DB's. And of all of them I met, not one of them thought they were. I thought the "Harvard" reference was gratuitous, but its clear that you are just rightfully proud of your accomplishments.

I appreciate the work harder/smarter sentiment. I try to bring that up when my friends complain that taxes are too high, and take too much of their money. "Work harder" I tell them. Show Uncle Sam that he can't stop you, but they look at me like i've grown a third eye. "Working harder" and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps apparently is only for poor people. Tax burdens, however, are so onerous (when compared to poverty and poor upbringing) as to be impossible to overcome.

For what its worth, I can afford $1,000.00, and $600.00 for an entry fee, but there is a principle behind not doing so. $600 is a big barrier to entry for most people - but $1,600 is beyond the pale, it all but eliminates regular wage earners, more or less like a Country Club. I would never be a part of a country club under any circumstances, even if the dues were paid by someone else. I prefer not to associate with exclusionary groups, and WTC is turning IM finishers (of which i am one) into an exclusionary group based not on athletic merit (which would be the only legitimate basis for exclusion) but based on the size of one's bank account. IM finishers will be known less for the extraordinary achievement that it is, and more for the fact that they can afford to be Ironmen. In my mind, it actually cheapens the brand.

Everyone's got a price point. The $4.00 I waste on a cappuchino is food on the table for a hungry family, and it probably makes them sick to see such excess. Bill Bennet losing $50,000 betting at a casino is obscene to me, but probably nothing more than a cappuchino to him. I think WTC jumped the shark with the $1,000.00 affinity club, and some people agree, and some don't.

Go Sparty. I hope you win out and play Boise State for the National Championship. Two good programs, great coaches.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [uli] [ In reply to ]
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Wrong! That was just the Spin. The Ironman Access program DID NOT address the issue he mentioned.

Complete spin for CONVOLUTED logic.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]
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Well, then we agree. :)

(As a sidenote: change your nick, maybe? ;))

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [uli] [ In reply to ]
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Well, then we agree. :)

(As a sidenote: change your nick, maybe? ;))

Oh... Believe me... I was SICK to my stomach when WTC announced the 5150 series. I used the designation before they did and it is a reference to two of my favorite things... Maui, and 5150... one of my favorite songs that I was really into in the 90s when I started using the handle on forums
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]
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Hahahah, SUE THEM!! Need a lawyer?

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [brycebaird] [ In reply to ]
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yeah--Harvard might have been gratuitous.

I just get frustrated when folks complain about people who have money and call them douchebags and the like and insinuate that they should have lessor "rights" from a triathlon perspective.

From a triathlon perspective, I train (on avertage) 22 hours a week and I've done 8 IM and 100 (with Kona) triathlons so I feel like I'm not a poser (even if I'm not as fast as most folks here). My financial resources just helps me pursue my passion....

I promise I won't drop the H bomb again...

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, another complete blunder from IM.

Look, it's not illegal or wrong to charge whatever a business wants for their products and to offer any products they want. But, when time after time a business completely botches this process inevitably they will pay with loss of customers.

Personally I got sick of IM and it's representatives years ago (See this blog post and my comment at the bottom http://mjtheironman.blogspot.com/...th-america-scam.html) and I will no longer buy an IM race nor wear their apparel including my finisher shirt. I think the spirit of triathlon is now totally gone from this company.

BTW, if you don't know already triathletes are mostly viewed as rich pompous assholes in the cycling world and WTC sure as hell isn't helping that image.

I urge people to sign up for races run by enthusiastic local people who aren't in it for the money, but for the love of the sport.
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Re: The latest WTC money grab... [RhoadsClimbs] [ In reply to ]
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So I just read this entire thread, start to finish. Is it April Fool's day? Did I miss that the entire thread was in Pink font?

Or did the internet and social media just steer the policies of a major corporation in a matter of a couple days time?

Can someone summarize this for me? I just clicked on the OP's link, and it's dead. No mention of anything on the IM website.
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