If I recall correctly, in the Triathlete's Training Bible (or maybe it was Going Long... or maybe both), Joe (or Gordo) mentioned that some pros use a 10 day training "week" instead of the standard 7 day week. I think the idea was that it helps spread out the harder workouts and allows for a better recovery strategy.

Certainly makes sense to me. Unfortunately, since I'm not a pro, and have to balance work and family with triathlon, it seems easier for me to schedule around a 7 day week (long stuff on the weekends).

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Steve Perkins

I totally buy that. I notice my body does not work in seven day "cycles" per se. It is more effective in nine or ten day stress/adapt cycles.

Also, the stress/adapt cycles each need to be longer: When I stress my physiology with longer, faster workouts I get more benefit by really burying it hard for eight or nine days, then taking 3-4 easy days.

I think conventional, ring bound seven day training logs trap people into a pattern of thinking in seven day cycles.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Because of my job I have my training arranged in a five day cycle m-f. Working 10-12 hours a day on the weekend means I can not train and that they don't really count as rest days. So my training looks like this.

Mon: Swim, 1 hour yoga or short bike

Tues: Long run, 1/2 hr yoga after

Wed: Swim or 1hr yoga

Thurs: Long bike or brick, (am currently doing middle distance run here, preparing for spring marathon)

Fri: Swim, strength train.

This is my current schedule, I am heavy on the swim right now because I was a duathlete up until this year. That will change at the end of march when I go into the next phase of my training, the swim will probably go to 1-2 days with a massive increase in bike miles and the run (my background sport) going to 1 10 mile run and a short pace run a week. I have on my schedule right now a speed work run on sundays because I could not find a place for it during the week and it is supposed to be part of my marathon program. However that particular workout hasn't made it off the paper yet in four weeks of training. This isn't exactly what you were talking about Tom but I will bet it is as close to a system not based on weeks or months as we will get. Interesting thought.

Jim

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

I have done 12-14 day training schedules.If I know I'll be out of town on business I will train the 12 days before the trip then use the trip for recovery.The same with family or weather.If I have a sick child and are unable to train because of lack of sleep,once the kid is well I train my but off.If a storm is predicted for the middle of the next week I will train till the storm hits and then recover during the crappy weather.I guess I train by my life schedule.

Good point Tom, I question that tactic from time to time.

Personally I follow a 9 day cycle mainly due to work scheduale. Tried both ways, incorporate a 7 day plan into my 9 day work sched. and 9 day plan within my 9 day work sked. The latter works best due to longer lead-ins between workouts and leading to more recovery. Both equate to same hours per 'week' Also less rush on a time management basis. Generally looks something like this at peak hours (24/'week'):

6 work days: 1 off day, 5 days mix of speed, 1 Lsd run and easy workouts. Total of 8-10 hours workout time

3 Off days at work: Distance work on the bike, Long, moderate long, plus one tempo ride on the computrainer. Also long run long intervals solo or as a brick. Up to 12 hours on the bike and 3 for the run

I swim 4 times a week.

Sunday

Tuesday

Thursday

Friday

Our coach says that each practice is part of a weekly cycle, and each weekly cycle is part of a monthly one, and each monthly one is designed around our racing year.

I don't think you can beat an ex-russian swimmer who went to the same school as Popov's and other coaches. Might be a bit relentless but I'm seeing continious improvements.

Now running is different. Now we're still doing all of our runs in the aerobic range, but our coach sucks (atleast I think so). He designs monthly plans but they are the same thing for 4 weeks (just increaes the volume and # of intervals). Maybe when we get closer to the race season I'll find a better running coach.

You gotta find what works for you, but it's important to have someone with an outside eye that can tell you when you're not doing enough (or when you're doing too much). I think self-coaching is bad for this exact reason. You can be too hard on yourself, or you can be a wuss and not get out of bed in the morning.

Libby Burrel who is one of the national team coaches said she tried a ten day week but had a hard time.

In fact we live in the world and the world operates on a 7 day week. You are correct to question it. There is no physiological reason why the week is 7 days. It just makes it easier for those of us who work to get things scheduled properly.

I think I could work well on a 9 or 10 day rotation myself. But with weekends and weekdays and such I go with 7.

Isn't it some Roman or astrological/astronmical thing? Duy..... Is it the Bible thing?

Geez, you'd think I'd know that.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I ran track and cross country in college and out of necessity (raced every weekend) we trained based on a 7 day week.

My first year out of school I converted to a 6 day week (5 train 1 rest). I did hard track workouts on days 1 and 3 and did long, long tempo on day 5. 2 and 4 were active recovery miles at a good pace. I was young and recovered very quickly and this "week" gave me more quality interval days in any given training cycle. Worked quite well until I got a job.

The same argument is made in every other hobby/sport also. Most use the 7-daty training week, b/c they plan their training schedule around work/family, around the weekends, etc.

If I were a pro, my schedule would certainly look different than it does now. It seems many AG'ers make up hours of training on the weekends, some might even get half their weekly training time on these 2 days.

What's optimal training and what people can "squeeze into their schedule" are usually 2 different things. I have never heard anyone say that the 7-day training schedule is best, it's just what fits into most people's schedule.

I agree that you are right, but don't agree that people should switch to something else. If a person's "day off" fell on a Saturday or Sunday, they'd likely train less total weekly hours than without (see my comment about AG'ers + weekends above).

Wouldn't it be great to not work and be able to train in a way that could optimize your ability and body? Of course, then I'd probably miss my job.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Well, why stop at questioning the seven day week? How about the 24 hour day?

Turns out some people have studied that, and most people tend to prefer a 25 hour day. That's why so many people chronically stay up about an hour after they "should" go to sleep in order to be fully recharged for the next day. This was an study done in the Arctic, I recall, during the continuous darkness phase. They took watches away from everyone and had them start to work in shifts whenever they felt like they were ready to work, without outside stimulus from lights. Came up with the 25 hour day idea for these workers.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Hey,

I think the week came about as a biblical/lunar arrangement.
Napoleon tried to decimalize the calendar and clock at one point.
10 hours in a day, 10 months in a year etc
Go figure,

Colin

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Bollocks....I'm knackered - Eammon

Interesting post, because I have finally settled into a training cycle that is working, and that cycle is nine days long.

I do a four-day "endurance block" of two long rides, two long runs and a long-ish brick. My "big run" caps off that four-day block. I then take a full day off, and do a three-day block of hard stuff. Two threshold bikes and a threshold run, and maybe some drills stuff. Then another day off, and repeat.

I have the flexibility to do long stuff during the week if needed, so this works for me. I think the 7-day schedule is a simple product of the work and/or school week for most of us.

Years ago I had a coach who planned things on a 2 week cycle. I admit that worked rather well. As a college student at the time, I often did my long runs during the middle of the week and had long rides and tempo rides thrown in on odd days (according to my training partners).

I think people get caught up in the "I must do every week a long ride, long run, tempo ride tempo run and be at the pool 4-5 times". Sometimes that just leads to poor recovery, lots of stress b/c your trying to cram things in, fretting over getting in that workout or I'm going to lose fitness and neglecting things like family or work during the week to make that workout and then make up the work family thing on the already crammed full of training wekend..

Since most people work weeks it makes sense to do long rides + runs on weekends but who says you must do a long ride & run every weekend. Why not alternate weekends and do a semi long run on the alternate weekends or a fast group ride?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

The reality is that we HAVE to work in 7 days cycle because the only time you can put in a 6 hour ride is on a Sunday or Saturday. And because our jobs use a 7 day cycle. DUhh!!

desert dude ... you're right on target. Any individual training in any sport is going to be both art and science. The problem with the art part is that it requires experience, experimentation, and patience. Those are in short supply. It seems many folks [I have no idea what portion] are of the "just tell me what to do on what day and what HR to do it on", so the 7-day pre-planned, one-size-fits-all, training plan based on HR is accepted.

I'm sure those that have been training for 10 years have figured out the ebb and flow of their individual training and have training down to an art form based on some science. It'll be nice 5-10 years from know to have enough experience to start to understand how I respond to different stresses from training, from work, from family, etc. Until then I'm stuck with just "collecting data" -- recording times, HR, distances, etc.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

I did the coaching thing last year and worked off a two week cycle but going solo this year have pretty much punted the whole calendar thing for now. I'm structuring my training around how my body responds, adapts, and recovers. Its a lot less structured and requires a daily kind of tweaking but its nice not to be slaved to a plan. It puts a premium though on knowing your body and sometimes this ol bod is hard to read.

For example today I did a serial trainer-treadmill brick: B: 1:30, R:30, B: 1:00, R:30 and figured to do a long run tomorrow but I feel a little off post workout. If I don't rest well tonight I'll do some strength training and stretching tomorrow and do the long run Monday. Years past I'd just push through the long run tomorrow. I think the older we get the smarter we've got to be to dose the training based on recovery-adaption then what the calendar, the plan, or our "want to's" dictate.

Approximately mitochondrial adaptation half-time is 11-14 days, so there has been coaches who have played with training cycles in the 10-14 day range, including myself. Unfortunately, it is rather difficult in a society where the seven day cycle is prevalent in all aspects of life. It look a LOT of planning and juggling, but should be doable for individuals or small groups with a flexible schedule.

Enough continued stress upon the body to elicit adaptation, proper nutrition and rest...you get faster/stronger/whatever. No magic involved.

Dave

Although the Jewish religion did have a seven day week (with the Sabbath being their rest day), different ancient cultures had different week durations, anything from 5 to 10. Romans had 8-day weeks but at some point (around 200 AD if I remember correctly) they reverted to a seven-day one. Note that the moon has four different phases, each one lasting about 7 days, so a seven-day week was pretty easy to define. (The fact that all days of the week have astronomical names also shows the ancient people's preoccupation with celestial phenomena.)

An it's not just convention that tied us to our current week length; women's menstruation period is monthly, so our evolutionary history has actually selected a certain time interval as a repeatable yardstick.

As far as training goes, it's really difficult to break off of the work cycle, so the majority of people do not have an option.

John

Jim, you are still trapped in the seven day week, even if you are only training 5 of them. That isn't what we're discussing here.

Tom, You are definitely hitting the nail on the head here. The problem is that, unless you are a full-time athlete, or someone whose non-athletic life allows total flexibility (job, family, etc.), fitting training into the 7 day schedule is the only thing that really works. If, for example, I tried to move to a 5 or 10 day cycle, I'd end up trying to do a 3-4 hour ride in the middle of the week. That isn't going to fly with Momma Marine Corps. Hence, I fit my training into the 7 day week that the world rotates on. When the world breaks free of the 7 day paradyme, we'll be free of the 7 day training schedule. Until then, most of us are pretty stuck.

I train using 10 day cycles. Tying everything to the standard 7 day week puts a lot of the focus on weekend training. Bigger training blocks has helped me experiment with recovery and workout combinations. Before it was "whatever fits in during the week" and then a huge weekend..repeat. Tying my training to weekends tended to cause a little bit of burnout too.

Plus doing the mileage math is easier.



-WineTrader

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Ban Wetsuits !! Wetsuitsareforwimps.org/net/gov

Quote:

(The fact that all days of the week have astronomical names also shows the ancient people's preoccupation with celestial phenomena.)

Actually the English language uses some scandinavian gods as names of the week. Thor, Woden, Frigga etc

The romantic languages use Roman gods as their basis.

Colin

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Bollocks....I'm knackered - Eammon

In "Advanced Marathoning" by Pfitzinger and Douglas, they point out that usually the most effective "microcycle" length is 8-10 days, but their schedules are set up with 7-day cycles, acknowledging that most non-pros don't have the flexibility to base a training program on anything other than that.