In some races they are also given spots for non-competitive people leaving some competitive racers out. Their cause might be good but why can't sport be sport and fund rasiing be fund raising.

That makes a really nice troll.

However, assuming it is not just a troll...

I have never had any problem with any of my friends, or anyone else, who was involved in Team in Training. Nor have I felt that they were any less gracious than any other racegoer, volunteer, or fan at the race.

As a cancer survivor (and soon-to-be physician), I very much appreciate the work they do to raise awareness, and to raise $$$ for research. The only reason I have not signed up is that I honestly don't have the nads to ask people for money. In a couple of years, when I am gainfully employed, I'll probably just do it and donate the $$$ myself.

I think your observation re: the free trip aspect is nonsense. Yeah, maybe that is an extra incentive to some people. But of the people I know who are involved in Team in Training (7), all of them have a personal connection to cancer, be it themselves, a husband or wife, family member or friend. I don't know if you have any experience with the disease, but I do feel that the organization is an important source of personal support and meaning, (not to mention greif management) to a lot of people.

You are entitled to feel and think whatever you like. But I would suggest that even if they are a little overzealous, cut them some slack. They probably deserve it.

Philbert

6 years cancer free

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Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!

Man, I thought we were talking about a whole different cult. I was getting ready to sign up but now..., geesh make me think there is finally a worthwhile cult and then burst my bubble.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Personnally I'm more of a leg man....oh, is this not what the thread is about....



I was tempted to say that this thread was a bust, but I didn't.



J/K

Richard

I'm starting a forum pool - $5 per entry. We will have a 100% payout to the winners:

1/3 to the person who guesses the number of posters who get caught up in a heated flame war over this subject

1/3 to the person who guesses the total number of replies to this thread in the next week

and 1/3 to the person who guesses the number of replies that contain a joke about the female anatomy

I am going with 6, 78, and 12

Personlly, I admire TITS and everything they stand for.

dave "that would be 2 for category 3 so far" judice

Obviously you don't live in NorCal. Huge problem with them at WF last year with a local tri club. Check the R.S.T. archives for details. I won't go into my dealings/problems with them as it's very well documented elsewhere (starting in 199?-the first Rock 'n Roll Marathon). Suffice it to say, I'm very happy to have gotten them their own LAST wave at WF. Also, check the last edition of American Tri magazine for an article on the purple hoard. Even people who used to be involved with them are now speaking out against them here. And, in the dot.com era, it was used as a social group and place to pick-up people. (Yes, that's true. The only reason my old roommate was a mentor was to hit on chicks.)

>>even if they are a little overzealous,<< HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Oh boy, you've made my day.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

As a cancer survivor myself, I don't see any connection between what they choose to do and not do as affecting my triathoning (is that a word?). Maybe it will affect my survival one day, or my children's survival, no way to know. Anyway, I'm not a member of their group or any other cancer research group...it just isn't what I choose to do.

I'm glad they care enough to help promote cancer research, and, perhaps by getting more people exposed to triathlons, in the long run it might result in more races being held, which will be good for those that have no interest in their group's cause.

Let's face it, if you can make a buck by holding a triathlon (or fish fry, or tiddly winks championship, or Mrs. USA, etc.) people will use the event to raise money for their own pocket, or for cancer research, or promotion of their company, or whatever.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

First I will say I respect anyone and any organisation that supports raising money for cancer or any other worthy cause. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. The problem for me is not the athletes competing in these events. It is the supporters, fans, and cheering stations that are there for them at the races. I ran the Portland Marathon last October and was discouraged by the lack of enthusiasm and support that the TIT people offered to us "regular" runners. Somewhere around mile 19 a huge group of the supporters would cheer wildly when a purple tank top would pass. Then they would be utterly silent when anyone not wearing the purple tanktop would pass. I have attended many events as a spectator and always try to support and cheer anyone who is doing the event. They trained hard for it (for TIT, for personal reasons, for other charities) and deserve the support and encouragement of all the fans watching the event. Having discussed this same topic with many endurance sport friends of mine they almost universally aggree that the fans of TIT are the problem, not the athletes or organsiation itself. I think this is a problem that TIT needs to address at some level as no good can come from having "regular" athletes being pissed at the "purple horde" athletes and fans because of their lack of universal support to all those completing the event.

Just my 2 cents...

I think it's great that the TIT people go out and race money for cancer research. My mother had cancer, so I feel a certain connection to what they are doing. I have also been a part of a number of fundraisers for the American Cancer Society. I did a lot of swim-a-thons with the swim team I coached.

With that said, I think the TIT people should have their own races a lot of the time. In many of the triathlons that they sign up for, they fill up most of the entries before other triathletes can get in. I hate to see the committed triathletes kept out of races because they were a day late with their entry while the TIT organization took over the spots. If the TIT events were stand alone, they would still get their money and message out and it would not impact the other people in the sport as much.

Aside from filling up space in races, I wonder how many of the TIT racers come back and do another race. If they do, I think that's great.

I'm not sure if this makes sense or if my thoughts are even consistent with each other, but this is what I wrote.

Adam

Having just lost a friend to cancer, I agree that raising money for cancer research is a noble and good cause. I also agree that purple people change the feel of local races. They have taken over the Kona Marathon, and seem to mainly cheer/be annoying for other purple people. Just this morning an intern in our office approached me for a donation to run in the Kona Marathon, so she could meet her fundraising goal for diabetes research, get her friend flown out from Cali, and get a 4 night stay at the Hilton Waikoloa. Those seemed to be her main motivation. She's even going to put a basket of for-sale Beenie babies in the office, to raise money. Thanks, but no thanks. I see good and bad in these fundraising efforts.

Dang it! I'll admit it!!! I want the dirt, but my internal acronym decoding algorithm is failing me. What is R.S.T.??? Where do I have to go to find the goods???

Enquiring minds want to know,
Dave

he said tit...uh huh uh huh...that was cool...tit



just train and race and shut up. don't give money if you want. start your own races forbiding purle t shirts. alot of talk on the forum about who belongs where and why. reminds me of high school or worse yet middle school.

your a poser, your a purple shirt, your a fat rich guy so you can only hang around with each other. hard core racers and college students over there. beam riders over there. steep seat angle riders over there.
customerjon over by the posers.

GAG!

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

If I'm not mistaken, RST stands for the newsgroup rec.sport.triathlon.

rec.sport.triathlon newsgroup?

viewable here (as well as your news reader):
http://groups.google.com/...p;oe=UTF-8&hl=en

I can say that I haven't seen that kind of behavior on the east coast, or for that matter anything close to that number of team in training people at races out there (I just moved to chicago last winter, so I really don't know how it is here either, yet). I don't have any experience with the west coast whatsoever, however I am willing to believe those of you from the area. Bummer.

Philbert

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Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!

amen!

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

>>Aside from filling up space in races, I wonder how many of the TIT racers come back and do another race. If they do, I think that's great.<<

Actually, in the past couple of years, we've gotten a lot of ex-TNT people in my club. They get hooked on tris, but don't want to do the fundraising time after time. That's good. What I personally do not like is that many (not all) join a club and still expect to be spoonfed training programs with full coaching and all that. For $50/year? Yeah, right.

And yes, RST = the newsgroup rec.sports.triathlon. Sorry.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I live in NorCal and I was at Wildflower last year and I have no problem with them. I agree that it is a very good idea that they have their own last wave, though. Does anyone know if it's true that a number of spots are set aside for them at Wildflower? If this is the case, I don't know if that's fair (especially at a race like WF, which fills up so soon). They should have to get up at 6:00 and sign up, like everyone else. A friend of mine did IMUSA with TIT(I love writing that) and had nothing but wonderful things to say about the organization. I personally wouldn't be up to the fundraising part, but I'm glad others are. I agree w/you that it's a social group. Hey, even those out there to socialize are putting in the training and raising money for a worthy cause. Lets be honest, Tri-clubs, running clubs, etc... are all social groups. I've been a member of two good sized tri-clubs, and a couple of running clubs, and a good portion of the people who are members are there to meet someone of the opposite sex who has similar interests.

I admit I'm not aware of your history in dealing with them.

See you at WF!(I will not be in purple)

>>Does anyone know if it's true that a number of spots are set aside for them at Wildflower?<<

Not sure. Maybe the WF Oly distance race. They do get about half the Treasure Island spots.

On the social thing--agreed, social is GREAT! That was the original intent of the founders of one of the clubs that I belong to. My rub is you join a social club, but still want to be provided full training programs and training sessions and all that. For a very small price. I'm sure a qualified tri coach wouldn't coach someone for $0.16/hour.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Wow, if anything, it's interesting to see this topic reappear after last summer's flame wars with TIT (although I think I'm going to use the TNT designation as TIT has a much more positive connotation in my brain than I am willing to provide that group ;-)

I don't believe anyone here has a problem with a group that provides an avenue for people to donate their time or money to an individual cause. Nor do I believe anyone has an issue with promoting the sport and bringing more people into it. The problem arises in methodologies in doing this, and exclusionary issues.

I emailed quite a bit with the top people at TNT last summer after the WF fiasco. I also have friends who are coaches/mentors for TNT in different regions. Most of these people are long time triathletes, and DO teach people more about the sport, than those who apparently teach about the "symbol" (of participating as a member of a group). The question is: Which type of mentor do you have in the region? A good witch? or a bad witch? ;-)

There have been quite notable exclusionary tactics documented in the past (including TELLING triathletes NOT in the group to move at a dinner table because TNT was now there, etc.) These are old issues and don't need to be rehashed. I am hoping that TNT has, in the past year, educated coaches/mentors that it is proper behavior to not JUST cheer for those people they train with, but all those who participate. While there are some who, as CLM mentioned, do this stuff under a masquerade of "a good cause" just because it rationalizes their desire to go to Hawaii to do a race or whatever (and I've heard this on numerous occasions myself), they may not understand that the "regular" athlete just behind the pack of TNT'ers is a cancer survivor, or is a doctor doing research on MS, or had a family member recently die of a heart attack. The assumption that because we don't donate to their cause, or publicly display our own, doesn't mean that someone who has a daughter who just went through brain surgery is any less important than giving money to help the Hoyt's build a new bike (sorry, this specific topic came up a couple years ago).

So next time you see some TNT members, I think by sharing your tales of triathlon, by demonstrating how individual the sport can be, yet how supportive people are of EVERYONE, we can help educate those who might have poor mentors/coaches who don't. To those good coaches I say thanks, you're doing a wonderful job for a good cause AND teaching people about the sport. Let's hope that you outnumber those who caused this ruccus at WF last year (and let's hope they are either gone, or finally "get it").

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Craig Preston - President / Preston Presentations
Saving the world with more professional, powerful, and persuasive presentations - one audience at a time.

3Sport, as a former TNT participant, I see both sides of your gripe.

First, the part which i agree with you. The tit cult, which is in one word, gitty. I raced last year at the Tri-America WDW, and it seemed the "purple shirts" did not know of competition. Most seemed to stick to themselves, and stay away from the other athletes. I feel this was mainly because most were first time athletes.

Now, for the part which I disagree. The concept of a free vacation, and free airfair which you speak of s a misconception. I could have much easier worked for 2 solid weeks, nonstop, and have had enough money to race in Florida (i live in NEPA), including airfare. The time and effort i put into raising money is unbelievable. To say anything was free is false. TNT stated for raising $3800 (i raised $4465), I would recieve a wetsuit, coaching, and my airfare/accomodations, in addition to my entry. All I recieved was entry/airfare/accomadations. Not to knock TNT, maybe I was just in a poor chapter, but I was not impressed. That said, I am glad I did it because it was a great experience, and I am glad I raised the money, but it is not a program for serious athletes, IMO. I fully agree that there should be seperate events, which may or may not be USAT sanctioned, for TNT members only. In their ads, state it is not competitive, because I went to compete, and felt out of place.

TNT is a great was to raise funds, but should be seperate from serious races, without a doubt. But, let me assure you, nobody is doing it to get something for free. Just my $.02

That's my biggest problem with TNT...I don't want a portion of my charitable donation to be paying for wetsuits, air fare, accomodations and coaching. I have a fundamental problem with their process. I'd much rather donate to organizations where the fund raising costs are much lower and a larger percentage of the money go directly to the cause.



I worked with a TNT coach last summer (as an unpaid volunteer), I loved the athletes and their willingness to become involved in the sport, just didn't approve of the program.



Alan