This! Love it. Great post.

Any ideas on shoe model numbers for Hoka and Brooks that you mention?

Edit: Found your answer... Hoka One One Evo Carbon Rocket 2019 release / Brooks prototype pre-production

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/nbrowne1

  
Hoka One One Carbon Rocket + :

https://www.runningwarehouse.com/...e-carbon-rocket.html

Sound much less cushionned than VF, Razor 3, NB Beacon... to be tested.

Also Hoka Evo Rehi :

http://iranshao.com/...e-one-evo-rehi-unbox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di1jn1bOeiQ

Lighter, a bit softer, but no carbon plate.

Most probably none is for me : I want cushion (mostly forefoot, and globally stable) !

I'd always choose NB beacon over Carbon Rocket +

Nike Vaporfly? Wouldn't even consider it.

How many miles do you get on your Beacons?

I got a pair last week, so here's my review on Vaporfly 4%. I'm not an expert, so I will just say what I feel about these shoes.

I heard people buy one size up for the old version, but new ones fit perfectly true to the size. If you have wider feet, you might feel these are too tight for you.
They are really light although they have thick cushions.
I brought Hoka Clifton 3 with me and ran with both on the treadmill at a local Nike store for comparison.
I didn't see a huge difference but decided to buy them anyway because they are not easy to find.
Ran total 12 miles so far and OMG!! They are incredible. I run about 3 times a week with a HR monitor and I can tell I run the same distance with less effort.
With Hokas, top of my socks get wet, but not with these. Ventilation is better.
I also own a pair of Pegasus Turbo and there's no comparison. Pegasus Turbo is a good training shoes though.
I highly recommend these shoes. I've gone through a lot of running shoes such as Brooks, Hoka, Newton, Nike, Inov8 and hands down these are the best.
I'm doing half marathon on Sunday, so we will see how I do.

Hey - I’m also doing a HM on Sunday and it will be my 2nd time wearing the 4%.

I did one track workout last week - 4 miles tempo - and at the same HR as past workouts I was around 10” faster per mile. Hope that can translate to the race this Sunday.

In terms of feel, they reminded me of the 1st or second version of the Bondi in terms of cushion, but quite a bit more rebound than any shoe I’ve worn before.

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Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
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I haven't tried Bondi, but they feel very close to Clifton 3 that I've been using forever.
Rebound is the best in my opinion and that's what makes running more fun and enjoyable.
These are sold out everywhere and now I know why.

Rob Gray wore the Vaporfly 4% in Ultraman for the 52.4-mile run. They seemed to hold up really well.

I tried mine out when I first got them by doing a solo 5K tempo run in the neighborhood, and I got the fastest 5K I've run in the last couple of years (I'm 56, so not exactly getting faster each year) - even faster than my occasional 5K race.

Based on that experience, I used them in last Sunday's California International Marathon. While I was severely undertrained (11 mpw average since June, though a lot of cycling), I managed a 3:09:57 with no foot issues whatsoever. Impressively, it seemed as though about 1 in 5 runners around me were also wearing the shoe - it was kind of an orange horde!

Ian

All the interest this thread has created for me, in this shoe, was quickly squashed when I saw theses things are $330Cdn for a pair! Lol. That's craziness....it's a freak'n running shoe.

3:09 on 11 miles per week???? I hate you! LOL.

LOL. Definitely not the BarryP plan. I've always been a low-mileage guy - probably why I've only had one stress fracture in almost 40 years of running (and that was when I was experimenting with higher mileage). That being said, I was never that good (2:52 PR from when I was 31), but on the other hand I haven't declined as much as I've gotten older as many of my peers have.

(No, this isn't h2ofun.)

Ian

Totally anecdotal data here, but I have to say that I ran 2 races (a 5k and a 13.1) in Vaporfly 4% and PR'ed in both of them. The 5k gain was very small (~3 seconds) but the 13.1 gain was about 30 seconds - my first sub 1:25 13.1. I think that Nike might have something legit here.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Did a half marathon yesterday (1:22) in the VF 4% - while I was about two minutes off my all time PR I probably ran a bit quicker than I otherwise would have given my current fitness. They guy I ended up running about 95% of the race with also wore the shoes and he had a 2+ minute PR.

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Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

PSA: New color (blue) with almost all sizes avaiable!

Thanks for that (even if I'm not looking to buy myself).

I can fathom the gains here, coming from the TT bike world of watts/minutes for a change.

It's just crazy to think with running I could slap these shoes on and go from a 25min 5k to 24min with nothing else.

Then again, I run in Adidas Supernovas.....so something like this is probably possible given how slow/cushioned those are.

I have recently been tossing the idea up, but I saw a video recently that made me think a little more about the claims. I like to wear Hoka's Tracer 2. To me it has a firm mid foot and I like the roll of the shoe - it feels to me that I run faster wearing them. The internal debate for me is whether I should get some 4% as I am on a cusp goal of trying to BQ, but having wore nikes a long time ago, I never liked how they felt. So could I deal with the potential for the shoe to feel like shit if I could cut time for "free" or stick with a shoe I already know I like and respond well too. The video is here:




After thinking about his points a little more, I think its placebo and am sticking with the Tracer 2s

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Now that this shoe has been out for a bit, what are people's opinions? Run is my weakest leg and while I don't like paying for speed, are people finding it's worth the $250 price tag for the gains? I do sprint/oly/half distances paced mid-6/hi-6/mid-7. I'm probably a midfoot striker shading towards the heel. Also, as not to burn through a $250 pair of shoes, what would you suggest training in if you want to save the 4% for races? Pegasus? Any other neutral shoe with similar drop? I've been wearing Asics for 5 years after switching from the old Nike Air Zoom.

Runs gains can be significant time especially if efficiency is better. Thanks for any advice.

Once again : read the paper for Colorado university, referenced several times here. Not the bullshit studies (not talking about your video).

In short : yes there is around 4% physiological gain (more for heel striker, less for mid foot and front foot strikers) .... IF the shoe is wearable for you.....

The shoe is massively unstable at heel, on the inside. If you are an overpronator, forget it. It will destroy your posterior tibialis in a few runs.

If you can handle this, great.

Being overpronator (right heel mostly) and running now midfoot, little gain and some risks compared to my Clifton 5. I use them only for short distances quick sessions. Not worth the money :-(

Just a PSA for anyone interested, the new colors are out and the nike website has most sizes available.

About to be 5%

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I have some update. Got a pair in orange in December, did half marathon and 5Ks and yes they are absolutely faster. I won my age group and stuff. I just got a pair in blue a couple of days ago too. Here's the problem. They wear out REALLY REALLY fast, so I'm using them only for the race.

The number 4% basically refers to economy gained, not net improvement.

The Zoom Fly Flyknit would be that shoe (the one with carbon plate and react foam midsole). Do try it first though. To me the unstable+narrow heel and narrow toebox are enough to dissuade me. The 10mm drop I could probably live with but only at speed.

I got a pair a couple of days ago and used them this Sunday for a half marathon. They did feel faster and at times I was surprised by the mismatch between my perceived and realized pace. How fast do you reckon they wear out? I also intend to use them only for races, and with IM Hamburg being my A-race this year I just might need another pair for that race.

Do you see the black rubber at the bottom of the sole? That rubber is wearing out in the corner after about 30 miles of run on the pavement.
It happened to my female friend and she's about 97lb.
Mine has about 16 miles on the pavement on the 6 miles on the treadmill.
I've heard serious runners stocking up these shoes, so if you are a serious runner, get an extra pair for sure.