I've had 2 pairs of Bondis (6s) and they had a nice, if uninspiring ride.

The thing is, that they were SLOW AS MUD. Seriously, that bad. Like so bad that even though I'm only in my mid-40s, I assumed that I was hitting my big age-related slowdown since my paces at all speeds were off by 30sec/mile, sometimes 40sec/mile.

Then I bought a pair of Endorphin Speeds. Instantly faster by 20sec/mile, sometimes 30sec/mile compared to the Bondis for the same effort. I was SUPER happy with that, as it turns out that big pace slowdown I experienced was entirely due to the Bondis. (It even shows up in my Strava, when you see the paces plummet the moment I stop rotating out the Bondis for faster shoes.)

A few months later I got the Vaporflys 2021. WOW. Another 10sec/mile speed gain, for 30-50sec/mile faster than the Bondi at all paces. Yes, it really is that big of a difference.

I also have a pair of 'maxi' shoes, the Saucony Triump, which weight similar to the Bondi6s, and they, while still not speedy, are a good 10sec/mi faster than the Bondis on average.

My Bondis have been literally so slow that they've worked their way out of my shoe rotation completely - they're just sitting in my closet as a backup shoe that I never use except for literally the slowest of recovery runs.

Hopefully the new Bondi isn't such a slog to run in.

i tried the endorphins. i just don't find them soft enough, or supportive enough for my own running. but you're right about the bondi. however, not this bondi. this is a fast shoe, for its size. this is the shoe for guys like me. but that's the caveat. if you an run in a saucony endorphin speed, or a nike anything, you can run in a HOKA mach 4. that's your training shoe. it would be my training shoe if i was 15 pounds lighter, but, alas...

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I train in the Bondi 6 and lately have been racing in the Nike Zoom flys and that combination has placed me on the podium in all five triathlons I've done this year (3 local and 2 70.3). I also got a Boston qualifying time in March and of course a high finish in the 100 100s earlier this year with them. Before switching to the Bondi for training I would have told you my running days were over or soon to be. I'm now looking to try the Endorphin Speed or Pro for the 70.3 WC as I've read and hear better things about them than the Nike. And I'll watch for the Bondi X to come out this fall based upon your recommendation (which is also the reason I switched to the Bondi). Keep running!

thanks, that's likely true - I bet I could get away with training on the Mach4.

While most of my biomechanics are still good, my ankles are MRI-confirmed arthritic, and if I run more than 40mpw, they start to really ache. Or if I run downhills too long, for too hard. So I'm biting the bullet and sacrificing my training speed on all but my fastest days by using cushioned shoes to brunt the blow of the impact.

I only wear the Endorphins on my speedwork days, but knock on wood so far they haven't left me hobbling or even sore after even a hard session.

Haven't tried the Mach4 yet but have heard good things. Too many good shoes nowadays to try out!

Slightly off topic: Talking with my little sister at lunch on Monday. Nurses really like HOKA shoes for work. She has two pair. A male nurse she works with bought a used pair for her and spent a long time cleaning them- I think he was looking to get into a shoe rehab business. It turned out to be too much work, but he gave the pair to my sister. She bought another pair used from Ebay or something. Her favorite work shoes.

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

i believe this is why you see certain HOKA models made in all black and/or all white. medical people. restaurant workers. postal workers. anybody who's on his feet all day. my dad. 82. bad legs. HOKA wearer.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

urgh, this is one of my least favourite trends in the sport these days. running at least used to be cheap, but now we've got shoes that are both super-expensive and placed on waiting lists . . .

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

well, here's the flip side of that. the Mach 4 is a $129 shoe. i would run in this shoe, as my everyday shoe, in a minute, if i just was 15 or 20 pounds lighter. if the bondi 8 were the bondi x without the carbon plate, i can almost guarantee you that would be my shoe. what i don't know is what the uncarbonated bondi will be, when the next version is let out of its cage. because, i'm almost sure the other new features in this shoe are 80 percent of what i like about this shoe.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Sounds like it could be a solid shoe for plodding tank like myself. I personally enjoyed the Bondi 6 as I've stated previously. Wish I had bought a second! I ran in the Bondi B re-issue and it just didn't work for me. Haven't gotten a chance to check out the Carbon X or Carbon X2 personally.

You give a much nicer description of the "new" foam than Road Trail Run does. They're literally like "they said it was new foam, but then they told us it was still EVA and didn't do anything else to it".

I wish Hoka would be far more descriptive about it if they're calling it "NEW FOAM". Again, sounds fun, price seems kinda steep, but in line with Rocket X and CarbonX2.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

as you know, eva is ethyl vinyl acetate. PEBA is polyether block amide. Boost is thermoplastic polyurethane (eTPU). i think some of the shoe media is ready to move on from EVA. but i don't care if it's made out of crepe paper. i only run on it. i don't cook or fingerpaint with it. the EVA in these latest HOKA models is clearly superior to the EVA in prior models. why do i care what it's made out of? i've put at least 10 runs of more than an hour each into these Bondi Xs, and they are still as lively as the first day i laced them up. so, these shoes have both the run quality i want, and the foam exhibits pretty good longevity (so far).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Sounds like a fun time!

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

The Goth Runners and Triathletes Club looks at you with disdain for suggesting the all black HOKA was not made specifically for them!

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

PC gamer here. Been trying to buy a $1000 video card since October. Still trying.....

Expensive shoes were always expensive relative to everything. If you're looking for deals there are tons of discount retailers that carry the mainline brands: Ross, Marshalls, Burlington Coat Factory. Do they carry tech runner shoes, not at all. But if you want running to be cheap you can keep it cheap. Just have to change where you shop :D.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

oh, i get it. and i still run a lot of my miles in saucony peregrines and kinvaras that i get on clearance for a song. but even then, i went and bought a pair of (nylon, not carbon!) endorphins out of pure curiosity. so i'm part of the problem.

the gear is certainly getting better, and there's certainly much more choice. but between a $1000 GPS watch, $300 carbon shoes, and so on . . . i do sort of miss the simpler times. (and i'm barely 40!)

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Is that the only issue with the Bondi? From a training standpoint that’s not much of a problem, as long as you have other shoes for races or speed sessions.

Sounds like a great shoe to use on the treadmill. I really enjoyed using the Bondi's on my easier, long treadmill runs and the carbon plate will make it even better. I almost bought a pair of Vaporflys just for the treadmill. I'm a huge fan of soft surface running though, especially being around 180lb

I did roll my ankle using the Bondi's and suffered an avulsion fracture on my 5th metatarsal last year running outside. Then again, I live in a new england suburb and the sidewalks get pretty beat up, so I blame myself more than the shoes

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Strava

It's actually not the only issue with the Bondi. I also have found that if at least for me, as a triathlete that doesn't run much more than 30 mpw on average, if I use the Bondi for even just half of those miles, I start losing my leg-impact resistance. Which means that the moment I switch to a race shoe, and run even normal distances not at particularly faster paces, my legs start feeling the beatdown. Especially on anything downhill.

It's very similar to someone who only trains exclusively on a soft treadmill and then goes and races on the road with not enough road-specific miles off the treadmill. You'll definitely feel the beatdown, and if it's a longer race, you may drop way off pace as your quads can't take the beating.

I intentionally offset this (successfully) now by making sure I get enough miles not in the Bondi, but also on a long route with a sufficiently steep long downhill so my legs can stay impact-ready for the distances I'm training for.

If you're however running megamiles like marathon-specific training, though, this is less of any issue depending on how many miles you're putting in. At some point, especially over 70mpw, it's more important to preserve the body against injury-impact (but still continue muscular endurance) than to continue overloading it for impact.

I've stopped using the Bondi for my originally intended long runs because I was noticing specifically this weakness as a lower-mileage running triathlete. I use it exclusively for recovery days now, your mileage may vary! (I still use the Saucony Triumph maxi shoes for long run - they aren't speedy either, but I get a bit more road impact, enough not to hurt my arthritic joints, but still get enough leg beatdown.)

Thanks

Most of my running these days has been rather slow and easy.

I alternate between Altras and Hokas, and I’m looking forward to the Bondi X.

I will agree with you, the soft surface running definitely weakens your leg-impact resistance capability. I did an oly tri last weekend on a hilly course and it absolutely shredded my quads despite averaging 15-20mpw for the weeks going in. It was the result of the treadmill, which encompassed nearly all of my run training.

On the other side of the coin however, it's a great way to build aerobic endurance. You'll simply be able to do more volume running on a soft surface. It's all just part of a proper training regimen and taking into account and training for all of the related factors

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Strava

SO glad to hear/read this. I'm on my last pair of Bondi Bs (purchased on your recommendation, and everything you said about them is true) and was wondering what to get next. It's between the Mach 4 and the Bondi X. I'm light and have a neutral gait, but my knees are absolutely shot, and my feet have lost much of their natural ability to absorb pounding, so I need the kind of cushioning Hoka provides. If the Mach 4 ends up not having enough cushioning for me, it will be nice to have the Bondi X as an option. I tried the Bondi 6, I think it was, and it was everything you said it was -- basically a foam boat anchor.

I enjoy your reviews (bike fit, shoes...) because we are almost exactly the same size (save my Covid weight seems to have surpassed yours as I am in the the high 180's these days).

I loved the original Bondi, tried to stay with brand through many downgrades of that shoe and then a run through the Clifton line... So I look forward to trying these with one caveat; unlike you I do need/want a wide toe box and have yet to find a carbon plated shoes that work (short distance yes, but I want a shoe to run LD). Eventually, when these become the standard widths will come, but until then...

Can you elaborate of forefoot fit?

Cheers!

i suspect you may be happy. these fit a little roomier than, say, the Bondi B. they're roomier than any of the cliftons in the forefoot. if you can run in the cliftons, you won't have any trouble with these. if the cliftons are a little tight in the forefoot, you'll find these a little more to your liking. i have to pull these laces down pretty tight..

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hunh. Inneresting.
I mean, I've seen the all-white Bondis in stores and wow, are they ugly. U-G-L-Y, you-ain't-got-no-alibi ugly. I mean, I was looking for bondis, and didn't think I cared how they looked, and they were available in my size and on sale but I couldn't do it. No other colors available so I went with the cliftons.