"is there a threshold allowance that we can legitly say....these bikes are all very close and thus buy what you want/like/feel comfortable on, etc."

yes. in my opinion. in my experience every company has its own style or set of imperatives when it tests. i promise you that if these same guys did this test, same test, day after tomorrow, then any bikes within 5w of each other are liable to swap places. it should also be remembered that with the exception of the specialized tunnel all these tunnels used in the bike industry were designed to test large objects traveling from 200mph to 500mph. remember, these tests were conducted at 30mph so that you could actually ferret out the differences. were they conducted at 24mph all these bikes would have tested the same. it's my guess they all tested very closely anyway, even at 30mph.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That's actually not true about A2; I think you're thinking of Aerodyn.

That will not be for several weeks either.

Everyone is traveling back yesterday & today and we are currently running more testing on tires/wheels and other people today.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Brian, if you get a second, could you elaborate a bit on this? I'm planning to buy a Tactical as soon as I'm able to (code for "get spousal approval"), but would love to know more specifically about what items you were impressed with in particular. Thanks for all the work during the testing and lead-up as well-

This is why we have error bars. I agree with Dan.

I think a more interesting question is this: what are consumers willing to spend per watt, or what watts threshold is sufficient to convince them to switch bikes or make their purchase? Would you pay $1000 extra for 10 watts? What about 10 watts with error bars representing say +/- 5 watts?

One of the things I want to do -- and I know this has been done before but not in this way -- is give the watts per dollar context for these frames. My guess is that that watts per dollar context will all over the map.

What clip on are you using on the diamondback? looks like a PD with Zipp extensions?

The stem is Andean proprietary. The bar is stock Corsair. The cups and pads are Profile Design. The extensions are modified Zipp Evo 110 Carbons. The junction box is inside the stem, and you can barely see a cable the way I ran it. It's clean and I like it a lot.

So have you decided to keep the Andean?

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blog

I think what he wrote above might imply he's keeping the Felt ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

you would know better than i. the A2 tunnel looks pretty good sized to me. but i haven't been there. i know you can put a full scale nascar vehicle in aerodyne, but i thought the A2 tunnel also accommodates these.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am selling the Andean and the Felt and buying the Tactical. But it's going to be quite a bit before I can get the right Tactical. Before I do:

-I need either the XS size that is in development or a post option that is far steeper. The way I run my saddle -- the stock post is such that I can't run the BTS bottle setup that tested close to neutral. I could only run the one that costs me half a dozen watts.
-Sexy design work on the frame
-Extension options
-Pad and cup options

At this point I have wrenched on or owned nearly every major bike, and the only one close to the impressiveness of the design of the Tactical is the Speed Concept. SC is better right now. It just is the best bike. But I don't have a relationship with a Trek dealer -- Carl is my Trek dealer and I'm all out of favors. And I think the brakes are a PIA.

By the way, this all has nothing to do with the test. I knew that the Tactical was my next bike the night before the test.

My reasons for selling the Andean were also formed prior to the test. I'm writing a review of the product, but my review will validate Tom A. I don't want disc brakes on a TT bike. Not now. Not ever. As long as Trek or Premier make a bike that brakes at the fucking rim, I'll be on rim brakes. You guys go buy what you want. I'm not following you off this cliff.

Do you think it might be cable pull and the levers? Might hydro solve that issue? That Diamondback stopped worse than the DA with CF wheels. I even looked at the rotors to see if they were still virgin.

Regardless, I am with you and Tom on this one.

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My YouTubes

Well it's a great value. disc, front race wheel, optimized chain for racing, travel case, the bars don't require removing 12 or more screws to change things around like some bars from other brands used to. It's just a well thought out package when it comes to that stuff. There really isn't anything I'd change out of the box. There aren't many, if any super bikes/fast bikes off the top of my head, except the Felt IA's 14 16 (which ever are the top end ones) that I can say that about until now. The one thing I'd change is adding in the dual side power meter. That is one upgrade I wouldn't fail to make personally

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

 
I think a more interesting question is this: what are consumers willing to spend per watt, or what watts threshold is sufficient to convince them to switch bikes or make their purchase?

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What percentage of consumer do you think this question applies to?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Hydro will make my issues worse. I will explain more later I swear

I forgot about the Canyon, which may be in the same league I just don't know because I have never even seen the thing up close

Awesome. Glad the worked. Now if you repeat a bunch of times, you can get the United Global Services experience, which I can also recommend highly. ;-)

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Had a feeling this would be the case. Cool stuff.

And I agree with you on the trek (besides the brakes). It's got everything you need to race a sprint or an ironman while having a very fast setup. Every time I think about a new bike, there isn't a bike that beats it IMO and I end up back at the sc. I'll be keeping mine until something better comes out..... which could be a while.

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blog

Wait? So are you saying that adding disc brakes to ANY bike doesn't make it automatically better?...Who knew?? ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

In my view of triathlon social dynamics, it's probably half and here is why. Those of us here, and the pros who ALL lurk here -- females excepted -- are leaders in triathlon consumerism. We are early adopters. And we win races -- we cover ground fast. The others who are riding bikes that cost $2k+ likes what we like, and what we like is speed. So by the transitive property...

the reason you see P5s and disc wheels in MOP is because they see them in the pro and profamateur ranks. The reason those Rigs have so many gels and and round bottles and bananas on the bike is because knowledge about such things isn't well known by them. They carry all that shit in that way because they don't know. If they didn't care they wouldn't buy these expensive bikes that promise to be simply faster -- those they see the local KQ athlete ride.

Wow I got off topic here. Need moar sleep

Agree on all points except the IAx, which is in every way inferior to the Tactical including aero

The Andean did not have hydro disc brakes and according to Kiley braked pretty terribly in the parking lot of the hotel.

Is it true buyers have to sign some form of indemnity waiver when they purchase a Tactical bike?
Never mind, I see a thread about it.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

OK...so the point stands. Discs, in and of themselves, don't necessarily make for good braking performance...well, duh.

Unlike what we are being bombarded with by the bicycling industry/media ("Discs are ALWAYS BETTER!!!), it sounds like execution matters in the use of disc brakes...which is the same that can be said for existing rim brake designs. That's been one of my pet peeves on this entire subject: people comparing "worst in class" rim braking setups (i.e. especially on carbon rims) to "best in class" disc brake setups.

Guess what?...there's a wide range in performance on both, AND a lot of overlap.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Is this the tipping point we reverse course back in favor of Mr. RR Aero Sins?