I don't know anyone who reaches back to get gels out of their suit while on a bike.

it took them 5 months to show us that and it has only created more questions. Yeah it was nice to have but it still doesn't paint the whole picture. Again... they haven't been transparent to customers. Do people know what transparent means? Sure they don't have to be and that's their choice. But if you want people to buy a p5x, those people who can afford one and who want a top of the line bike, are going to want a bit more data before buying one. How are sales on the p5x right now? I can't imagine they are earth shattering.

You even said it yourself in that thread linked, that you were waiting for the white paper. Still waiting.....

Have you read the trek white paper? It's not perfect, but it's by far the best one we have seen.

You wonder why there is so much hate for this bike... well for starters it's because of marketing bs that hasn't been proven or backed up with valid data. But also because you and slowman keep trying to shove this bike and lack of data down our throats. And slowman probably has data that we haven't seen. And yet he keeps saying that cervelo has released more data than any other mfg...... yet we the customer can't get see it. You want to argue and say just trust cervelo and that's fine. But don't be surprised when there are a bunch of people that don't trust any mfg's and want to see data to make their own judgements. If you would just stop fighting it and stop trying to convince people, there probably wouldn't be so much hate for it.

Bryan I don't want to give you too much of a hard time because a lot of what you say makes sense, and you contributed massively to this test and the following discussion.

But are you really fine with THIS? Gels taped up into the air on a bike that has both an integrated bento AND an integrated draft box, and then 3x 750ml bottles. In the absence of a white paper to justify the protocol it just looks like handicapping. I think this is the kind of thing that has some of the more critical thinkers on here rubbed up the wrong way.

I was only there to bring the P5-X and take photos and video of the testing. I helped Kiley install tires and tubes and that was about it.

Yes, I am fine with it and I will tell you why.

I asked Cervelo why they had those gels taped like that. Their answer was the bikes needed to carry a flat kit of 1 tube, 2 co2, 2 tire levers, and an inflator. 3 bottles were to be carried on each bike and 8 gels.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think you can fit 8 GUs in any of those bentos without the sides bulging out. The P5-X bento is MASSIVE. You take out the tab in the bottom and it goes down into the frame. That is why there is no gels taped on the P5-X. I can almost fit my Iphone 7 Plus into that bento. Cervelo put 4 gels in each bento and taped 4 more on the bikes. On Slowtwitch, everyone is pissed about that. In the real world, this is what you see. If you don't, then you haven't spent enough time around age groupers or walked around in transition.

This was Cervelo's protocol that every bike had to carry the same amount of stuff. So they figured out how to do it and that was taping 4 GUs onto the stems. You can call it handicapping if you want but you are ignoring the reality that these bikes were setup for an Ironman distance race for the average age grouper.

Everyone is ignoring that the P5-X is 3W faster with this setup because apparently aerodynamics is the most important. No, it's not. Not anymore. The bikes are so close to each other that storage and integration is the new Aero.

Take time to reflect on why they set these bikes up, examine the average age grouper, and realize this was all set up for Ironman distance racing and you will see why Cervelo did what they did.

Where are you going to put 8 gels on these bikes?

And who the hell carries 8 freaking gels on the bike??? Yes I know there are people that do (tyler butterfield comes to mind) but there really is no need to carry that much.

We have no way to prove or disprove that but it would hardly be shocking to see an average AGer making a poor setup decision from an aero perspective

Flo and the Coggan-led TriRig brake testing are the gold standard for industry transparency in testing, in my opinion. It rapidly goes downhill from there.