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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I sent 100 bucks yesterday before you made the post for the parts.

Why did your lbs get cervelo approval? Were they concerned if cervelo found out your lbs was involved and the results weren't to cervelo' liking, they would get dropped by cervelo? I understand them not wanting to piss off cervelo but at the same time, they should be able to donate a bike without having to seek approval. Cervelo doesn't own the bike, your lbs does.

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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
T3_Beer wrote:
It's Dan's site, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.....I don't see any issue with him not allowing the results.

thank you for the show of solidarity. but just to be clear! what i'm requiring as a condition of publication is that i'm satisfied the test is conducted correctly, because rightly or wrongly a lot of weight is going to be attached to this (because it's got the patina of being unbiased), and because a lot of unflattering statements were made about the very bikes being tested by the very person organizing the testing (statements he may now wish he'd not made; we've all said words we wish we could reach out and grab after they've left our mouths).

what i'm hearing today is giving me some comfort. so i'm optimistic. cautiously. i think we're headed down a good path.

This is great to hear. I'm looking forward to hearing about this process and what the results show. I haven't bought a new bike in a long time and this could push me over to buying one. I'm sure it's probably too late, but I'd like to see an old school P3 with solid aero upgrades, like tririg brakes and bars. I don't own a bike set up like that, but that's a relatively user friendly set up, easily travels, and user friendly for mechanics. Finalky, it is a relatively long in the tooth design, that still might be uber competitive.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I will say that I think Dan has every right to allow the results or not allow them. At the end of the day, this is Dan's business. I know I wouldn't allow skewed results or bad data be broadcast-ed from my business which could tarnish my name and my business. Those involved should put themselves in Dan's shoes. He can't just assume you are going to complete a good and fair test. That would be a recipe for disaster of his name and business. So everyone should just get off their freaking pedestal's, come back down to earth, and converse offline. I hope those involved have reached out to Dan and explained their process, protocol, plans, etc. After all, if they want the results to be posted here, they should be seeking out Dan (call or e-mail him directly). Dan shouldn't have to be seeking out them (as DesertDude was trying to get him to do).

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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Donated
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Donated!
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
come on dude(s), seriously. Don't you think we thought about seats, bars, extension shapes about 89 emails, 15 phone calls and at least 6 weeks ago?

Did you think of pad shapes?
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
I sent 100 bucks yesterday before you made the post for the parts.

Why did your lbs get cervelo approval? Were they concerned if cervelo found out your lbs was involved and the results weren't to cervelo' liking, they would get dropped by cervelo? I understand them not wanting to piss off cervelo but at the same time, they should be able to donate a bike without having to seek approval. Cervelo doesn't own the bike, your lbs does.

probably for many of the same reasons that dan wants transparency and good practice. also, it's actually likely that, given schedules of payments for bike orders/pre-seasons, that cervelo at this point still owns that bike.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I will take care of the $195.00

I'm always up for a good comparison.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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The owner wanted to get Cervelo's approval because IOS is a large Cervelo dealer and the shop is lending the bike to Kiley for the study.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Apr 13, 17 7:29
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you Dan!

Can you send it to the Go Fund Me so we can keep track of who all has paid?

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Dan! Can you send the money to the Go Fund Me?

To keep track so far: Seatpost and Stem - $595

Slowtwitch Dan - $300
dkennison - $195
Myself - $50
Other slowtwitchers donations on Go Fund Me - $

I just spoke to my shop. The seatpost and stem have been ordered! I am bringing the P5-X!

Thank you all for the help!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Apr 13, 17 7:52
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I just donated $100. Looking forward to reading more.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [wetswimmer99] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Donated.

ishi no ue ni san nen | Perseverance will win in the end. | Blog | @nebmot | Strava | Instagram |
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [nebmot] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Donated a wee bit as well. Interested to see the results now.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [frenchieTT] [ In reply to ]
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I added $25. I look forward to seeing the results.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Where's the gofundme link? I seem to be the only one who can't find it.


EDIT: Donated.

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
Last edited by: CCF: Apr 13, 17 9:58
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [CCF] [ In reply to ]
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CCF wrote:
Where's the gofundme link? I seem to be the only one who can't find it.


It's on the first post hyperlinked to the word GoFundMe. Here it is in long form:

https://www.gofundme.com/...tt-bike-aerodynamics

Matt
Last edited by: Pun_Times: Apr 13, 17 9:55
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [fb] [ In reply to ]
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fb wrote:
desert dude wrote:
come on dude(s), seriously. Don't you think we thought about seats, bars, extension shapes about 89 emails, 15 phone calls and at least 6 weeks ago?


Did you think of pad shapes?

Yes.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [CCF] [ In reply to ]
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Thank You! and everyone else!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Funded 50$

—
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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One other variable that I thought of last night that is almost impossible to account for in tests like this is human bias. Anyone who is an athlete or involved somehow with the business is going to of course have sort of bias. Let's say you were to bring in complete outsiders who know how to conduct aero tests (eg, aerospace), give them the protocol, and completely remove yourself from the equation...you're still not going to completely account for this variable. Even when we look at things objectively, we always have SOME sort of bias in our heads. Maybe we like the color of shape of a certain frame batter or the font used in a logo.

There's a reason why we do double-blinded, if not triple-blinded, trials in the pharmaceutical industry. Even then, it's sometimes difficult to remove everything. Maybe a patient or investigator likes the color of one pill over the other, even if they don't know what is in it.

I know Dan has his own standards, but one thing that would have helped in this situation is to publish your protocol ahead of time, outline all of the bike configurations, and make NO changes to the test once they've been made public (despite all of the comments you might get from others). Every test is going to have it's flaws, but making last minute changes like you are is already introducing more variables and weakening your test results.

Overall, best of luck with the test and look forward to seeing the results, wherever they are published*.

And if you really wanted to be kick-ass, you would have gone about this in a real scientific fashion and had it published in a peer-reviewed publication...;) (and I won't get into bias there)

"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Donated

-Mike

Vertex Fit Systems (http://www.vertexfitsystems.com) | Bikeworks (http://www.bikeworksma.com) | Russo Racing (http://www.r2tri.com)
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout: New vs. Old; Rim vs. Disc; Direct to Consumer vs. Retailer; Beam vs. Double Diamond (*an update*) [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Quite sure nothing can beat my setup in aero/price.


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