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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Hybridlete wrote:
Wow, your post is even more of a 3T ad than the previous shill.

I do admit I have a long history of shilling for companies in the performance cycling space.
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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Cervelo seems to do quite well on the track.


Oh, and I have an exploro - it’s fantastic.

It is not perfect, but it is the bike I take when we road trip around Colorado. With 2.1in 650b gravel tires you can go just about anywhere.

I am going to ride mine on a fast road ride tomorrow with 28mm tires.

It wouldn’t be my only bike, but it is a great toy to have in the garage.
Last edited by: Orbilius: Sep 8, 17 10:56
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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i can't be sure, but i think the OP is referring to the exploro. i believe i'm having dinner with the half-owner of 3T at interbike. i'll let him know he doesn't know anything about aerodynamics, which means he probably didn't when he designed all cervelo's bikes up thru the P5 when he founded and owned that company.

Let's also ignore the wind tunnel data published at the launch of the frameset over a year ago.

I hope to see you at IB, too!

-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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SuperDave wrote:


Let's also ignore the wind tunnel data published at the launch of the frameset over a year ago.


Good advice since I don't think you can easily answer my questions about that data:

Steve Irwin wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the aero test data yet:

https://www.3t.bike/...O/realfast-graph.jpg

So:
They gave it 40mm wide knobbly tyres instead of 28mm mostly slick road tyres
They added 2 x750ml bottles
They added mud rather than it being clean

And it was STILL more aero than the base frame. It would be nice if they told us what the base frame was, but taken at face value it seems reasonably impressive.


There are so many problems with 3T'S claim and test that it is sad:

1- Having round bottles on blunt tubed frames is commonly known to improve aero dynamics because of the well known aspect ratio elongation. Only putting the bottles on their 3T Exploro frame instead of also on the test frame is being dishonest here.

2- What gigantic round tubed frame are they even talking about? No one makes a round down tube that big. Seems like it is their own test frame with the worse design they could build.

3- Where are the error bars on their results showing the measurement variability? And how many measurements were taken? Looks like their numbers jump up and down and the difference between the worst frame the Exploro is within the margin of error. Did 3T only show the data for a single test run where they got the numbers to make it look good? And why only up to 15 degrees yaw instead of the expected 20 degrees that Flo has shown that tests should be carried out to?

4- Mud on the Exploro but not on the test frame? WTF? Did they sculpt the mud into aerodynamic shapes or something? Have something rough like mud on blunt shaped tubes like on the Exploro is widely known to improve aerodynamics because of the dimpled golf ball effect. Again, another incredulous action by 3T.

5- And such widely different sized tires mounted between the Exploro and the test frame means that all of 3T's data from this setup is invalid.
Last edited by: Hybridlete: Sep 8, 17 11:03
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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Hybridlete wrote:
Wow, your post is even more of a 3T ad than the previous shill.


I do admit I have a long history of shilling for companies in the performance cycling space.

I was thinking recently that kileyay is the best case for Hybridlete. An earlier iteration of kileyay became infamous for provocative, anti-shilling posts, that were widely perceived as trolling, attacking various aspects of the industry, yet often stimulated productive discussions, and then he morphed into backing his words with actions that were perceived as adding tremendous value to this community. So far, Hybridlete seems like a more trolling, less substantive version of pre-kiley, though I'd also argue his posts have sparked some useful, and certainly entertaining, discussions. There's something meta about the two of them finally crossing paths here.
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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [EricTheBiking] [ In reply to ]
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EricTheBiking wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
I particularly like how he used the exact definition that you informed him was obsolete.

Maybe he's really really old...


It's like the people who says "supposably" instead of "supposedly". Supposably actually IS a word, but ignorantly fumbling into an odd or obsolete usage is not the same as knowing you've misspoken or conceiving the difference between the two. :) :) :)

-E
This made me smile bigly - I mean, big league.
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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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sxevegan wrote:
iamuwere wrote:
Gravel races can be blisteringly fast in spite of conditions. This not a thing for leasurely bike path rides


Correct, but it is also great for the leisurely rides too. With big tires and low pressure, this bike is SO smooth over chattery asphalt.

At the 200 mile Dirty Kanza race, Mat Stephens averaged over 19mph, and that is based on elapsed time, so it includes his pit stops. At Gravel Worlds a few weeks ago the leaders averaged over 20mph based on elapsed time.

So gravel racers are typically riding over 20mph for a LONG time. Most gravel roads have 2-4 relatively smooth lines to ride on, with the rest of the road having chunkier gravel. Smooth is fast, chunky is slow. If you are riding in a cross wind, drafting is not effective. On a paved road, you would echelon out in a cross wind to get maximum draft. On gravel, if you echelon out you'll be riding in the chunky gravel, which is slow. So while riding single file in a cross wind, you want your bike to be as aero as possible. (and i don't understand why you wouldn't want it as aero as possible everywhere else)

There's a reason why the fastest gravel racers also use aero bars. Mat won DK with aero bars. Colin won GW with aero bars. Actually, i think the top 7 at GW all had aero bars (front door brag, i was 7th). A lot of these races get thinned out quickly and you spend a lot of time in a very small group or by yourself, chasing or being chased. Aero matters.

The 3T Exploro is a very fast bike, even on the road. With Panaracer Gravel King SK (knobby) tires in any width (32, 35, 38, or 40) my 3T seems about equal to my Tarmac with 700x25 training tires (bontrager AW3s, gatorskins, specialized turbos, etc). I can't tell you for sure if it is the frame aerodynamics or just that the tires aren't as slow as they look, but I have no problem crushing dreams on every group ride whether I'm on my 3T or my road Specialized :)

What race is GW?
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Re: The 3T Exploring Bike Claims To Be Aero With a Box Shaped Downtube [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Hybridlete wrote:
I've been taking a closer look at 3T bikes and the amount of BS I see is too much. 3T claims that their Exploring bike is "aero" even though it has a huge box shaped downtube, not even any effort at faking a "kamn tail" where the tube is still suppose to taper at least to some degree. Instead we get a square box that is somehow "aero". Pure marketing.




http://road.cc/...exploro-ltd-frameset

And don't even get me started about their so called aero seat post ad seat tube. Bernoulli is spinning in it's turbulence!

"what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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