I thought the simple explanation was working too hard on low blood sugar, so your body burns muscle protien for energy instead of glucose/glycogen/carbs. My sweat smells like ammonia when I run before I have breakfast.

Never tried running directly out of the pool, so I have no idea about the chlorine connection.

Lee Silverman
JackRabbit Sports
Park Slope, Brooklyn

Anything is possible

But that explanation doesn't work for me. Sometimes I still have the ammonia smell of my post run sweat when I haven't been near a pool for 3 months. Maybe they should use less chlorine in my tap water?

You two are NOT helping me prove my theory. How can I even remotely come up with a discovery if you two are not going to go along with this. I was hoping we could just come to my conclusion without debate, question, argument, surveys or testing.

Okay. Time out. I'm going to put a hold on my white paper on this.

But, for you two exceptions, what you guys have got there is "Dormant Embedded Chlorine." Although 3 months sounds like a long time from the pool, those little chlorine molecules are tough critters to kill. You guys just think you are washing those suckers off, but maybe you didn't.

[...walking down the hall...back to the lab......slamming door...]

I posted this on Gordo a couple of weeks ago - I checked my workout log, and I did in fact swim the night before the long bike workout in which my sweat smelled like ammonia. Good theory - I think you might be right.

Second hand info alert!!! I have understood this smell to come from the body burning protien. Very lean people who don't eat enough carbohydrate and fats will experience this.

Second hand info complete.

I always have the ammonia smell after a workout. I swim in the ocean, not a pool. Sorry :~(

Aloha,

Larry

Negative comment on the pool thing, I had this problem as a duathlete before I started swimming, I think it is a diet thing, but it doesn't matter what I eat if I'm going straight for more than 2 hours I smell like cat piss when I'm done.

---

Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

My gf thinks you are confusing the aroma's of ammonia and chlorine. These two chemical compounds have completely unrelated compositions. Here she is to explain...Chlorine's chemical nomenclature is "Cl" and Ammonia's is "NH3" - the two are completely unrelated. The human body (and all mammals in fact) produce Urea as a waste compound from the breakdown of amino acids (the building blocks of proteins). The Urea cycle in the body is there to prevent the accumulation of Ammonia (very toxic), which is a step in the process. The liver actually contains an enzyme that converts toxic Ammonia into Urea, which is then excreted in the Urine... The fact that you can actually smell ammonia would be an indication that there is some sort of breakdown in the Urea cycle or that there is too much ammonia build up to go through the normal cycle so you end up sweating it out. Have you opened a bottle of Windex lately? That is what Ammonia smells like, vs the Chlorine smell of the pool...

http://users.rcn.com/...ges/U/UreaCycle.html

She's the brains in the outfit...I just ride my bike. :)

---

Ian MacLean
http://www.imfit.ca
Success comes when fear of failure goes

[reply]Maybe they should use less chlorine in my tap water?[/reply]

Do you live in Dallas? I bought a fountain drink at DFW airport this summer and threw it away after 1 sip - the chlorine content was just insane! A buddy of mine that also bought one finished his (with MUCH effort) and had a headache for 3 days. Nasty stuff those poor bastards have to deal with.

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

your theory doesn't work for me: last Sunday after my lsd (1:45) I smelled totally like ammonia (yuck, worse it's ever been) and I had not swimmed since Friday night (hence two showers in between at least). I also drink only purified water so there's no chance that the chlorine would've gotten in that way.

For some reason, actually, running right after swimming seems to cause this to happen *less* often, but then my pool is ozonated and not really chlorinated.

Don't think it's related to lack of carbs either, as I eat a usually fairly carb-rich diet (I'm an ovo-vegetarian) and do take gels/extran when exercising for over 1h.

My theory is that it's the technical fiber apparel that makes it more pronounced: for some reason I don't think I've ever noticed an ammonia smell when wearing cotton or other things (when, say, skiing or hiking) but I always seem to notice it with a couple of coolmax garments I have.

The technical fabris may enhance the problem, but I have expierienced this doing yoga in nothing but cotton shorts, or running with no top on. I do notice it more running if I am wearing Coolmax...etc.

---

Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

Doing some research. Here's an article indicating the protein thing:

8831 -- 1/10/00

BODY ODOR

Gabe Mirkin, M.D.

All people smell when they don't bathe often enough. If you bathe regularly and have an odor, something is wrong. The most common cause of body odor is a skin infection. Sweat doesn't smell when it first reaches your skin. The odor comes only after bacteria or fungus on the skin's surface break down the fat in sweat to form chemicals that smell.

Most sweat glands produce sweat that contains no fat, but the sweat glands around the breasts, genitals and armpits produce sweat that contain fat. Most people can prevent body odor by washing these areas frequently to reduce the number of bacteria on the skin's surface and by keeping the skin dry afterward. Use deodorants that contain low levels of bacteria-killing metals, such as aluminum, zinc and zirconium. You can also kill bacteria by using special antibacterial soaps and by applying antibiotic creams.

What if you bathe regularly and still smell? An ammonia odor is caused by infection with helicobacter, the bacteria that causes stomach ulcers, or by eating too much protein. Ask your doctor to draw a blood test for helicobacter. If it is positive, you can be cured with antibiotics. If it is negative, you may need to eat less meat, fish, chicken and dairy products. When you take in more protein than your body can use immediately, your body strips ammonia from protein to make you smell like ammonia. A fish odor is caused by taking choline, a pill sold at health food stores; by a hereditary condition called trimethylaminuria that requires avoiding fish and other dietary sources of choline; or a vaginal infection caused by a bacteria called Gardnerella.

Ruocco V, Florio M. Fish-odor syndrome: an olfactory diagnosis. International J of Dermatology 1995(Feb);34(2):92-3.




To receive Dr. Mirkin's free health & fitness E-Zine each week, send a blank email to subscribe@drmirkin.com

www.DrMirkin.com

---

Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

Therefore, what we are basically smelling is our own "Pee Pee," more or less.

Here is "smelling your own pee pee" in more scientific terms.

Health and Fitness: Do You Smell Ammonia In Your Sweat?
Posted on Tuesday, April 13 @ 09:29:21 CDT by root


In the perpetual war between fat and muscle, guess who wins most of the time? Fat is definitely a survivor. However, you know that making muscles stronger will make them undefeatable. Long hours in the gym, training through pain and sweat, all for one goal – build the muscles. But what if you are burning your precious muscles instead of fat for energy? The good news is that you can prevent this devastating effect just by using your nose.

You are doing yourself a bad favor by continuing your training if you can smell an acrid, ammonia-like sweat. It smells differently than your average daily sweat, and you should be able to distinguish the difference. Ammonia has a strong, pungent odor that is easily recognizable in bleech and cat urine. The smell is common amont professional athletes who train for hours on end. The real reason is when you can smell ammonia in your sweat – your body is eating up your muscles. Sounds terrible, feels auful, but it can be prevented. Here is how it works.

When you start exercising, your body taps into your glycogen that is reserved in liver and muscles. On average, a healthy adult has approximately 500 calories worth of glycogen stored depending on individual body chemistry. If you are exercising for a few hours your body depletes all the glycogen stores. Other energy reservoirs your have are your fat and your muscles. Don't you wish you could just tell your body to burn only fat and keep the muscles? Well, separating dream from reality, your body wants to do its own thing. Being the most complex machine, it burns both – fat and muscle - to preserve both. The only thing you can manipulate is what percentage of each stored fuel is burned.

If you continue to exercise in the glycogen depleted state, muscle breakdown is accelerated. Your body has to work harder and all metabolic processes are faster than normal, which requires more energy, but all the glucose is already used up. In order to raise energy levels, fat and muscle tissue gets broken down and converted into usable fuel. At the moment of intense training, working muscles demand fast working glucose. Since there is no metabolic pathway to convert fats into glucose, muscles serve as the preferable fuel.

You know that your lean tissue is made of protein. The key element is Nitrogen, the most valuable structural part of the body. When it comes to your diet, Nitrogen is the reason you must eat plenty of complete protein to support life. It is the distinctive feature of protein – neither fat nor carbohydrates have it. So, what is ammonia? It is the by-product of protein metabolism in your body. The chemical formula for ammonia is NH3, having one nitrogen (N) and three hydrogen (H) atoms bonded together.

When your supply of dietary protein and energy exceeds metabolic demands, you are in positive Nitrogen balance. For bodybuilders, this means that they are actually constructing new muscle tissue. However, when your body doesn't have enough supply of energy to maintain its functions (coming from either protein, carbohydrates or fat), you will transform valuable muscle into usable glucose. This is when you will smell ammonia.

Muscles are canibalized by stripping off Nitrogen atom and eliminating it in urea (CO(NH2)2) through the urine. But during exercise other channels of elimination are operating even faster – namely sweat. Nitrogen is converted into ammonia (NH3) which is dangerous inside the body. Ammonia can damage tissue and inhibit energy production, so your body tries to dispose of it quickly. When you exercise there is no faster way to do this than through sweat. And hydration becomes even more important.

If you are dehydrated, regardless of whether the body is resting or working, all salts in the blood and lymph become more concentrated. So, proportion of ammonia to water increases, thus the smell is easier to detect. By drinking additional water you will dilute your body fluids and easily excete all metabolic wastes. Regardless whether you can smell ammonia or not, sweating means water loss. Just 2 percent dehydration in the body will cause 20 percent drop in physical and mental performance! Can you imagine how damaging it can be for your workout?

Protein Intake – Does It Matter?

You might think that if you eat additional protein and pass on carbs you will spare your muscles from being used as energy. Bad idea. It is correct that protein helps to build and repair muscle, and it also aids in increasing your metabolism and enhancing your immune system. But it is the carbohydrates that will actually spare the body from using protein as fuel immediately. If you eat protein for energy, you are actually taxing your over-working body. Before protein will become readily available in your system, it has to undergo a long process of digestion and destruction. Only after amino acids are converted to ketone bodies the body may utilize protein for supporting its functions.

Number one thing to watch for is that you eat enough calories. This has to come through a combination of the major three - fats, protein and carbs. Even the ideal fat loss diet contains all three, just in different proportions - moderate amounts of fats, moderate amounts of carbohydrates and slightly larger amounts of protein.

Second thing is food timing - eat enough before the workout so you can have a great one and benefit from it in the long run. Here I am talking about muscle building, or at least preserving it. When muscle glycogen becomes low the body starts to call on yet another fuel source, protein. Protein is a back-up fuel source for sugar in weight training. The unfortunate thing for you to consider is that protein source may also be your muscle tissue. It is a known fact that when weightlifting, your lifts will go down very significantly (10% or more), because your muscles use glucose to produce the energy needed for lifting.

What if you are trying to shred some body fat? Doesn't matter, it's the same process. For that specific purpose perform cardio at moderate-high intensity, and be willing to sacrifice your muscles if you want to burn fat. But don't go weight training with low blood sugar - you'll pass out.

And finally, the ammonia smell. This is when the body tears down its own muscles as back-up fuel source. If you overlooked the two mentioned above guidelines for sparing your muscles and happened to be exercising when all the sugar has been used up - take a break, a deep breath and a drink of carb solution, such as a sport drink. Sugar will go to work just minutes after consumption and will stop muscle wasting almost immediately. Replenishing hydration will also dilute your blood and re-energize your whole system.

The bottom line is energy and water - get these in plenty and you will reach the goals. Be sure to always eat a sufficient amount af carbs to spare the lean tissue. Protein for fuel may lead to muscle loss.

Sweat Facts

• 
  
  A pea-sized bead of sweat can cool nearly 1 liter of blood by 1-degree F
• 
  
  We produce enough heat to bring 25 quarts of water to the boiling point daily
• 
  
  Only about 25 percent of the energy in a workout might be needed for the physical action of exercising. The other 75 percent is leftover heat released through persiration.
• 
  
  The body has approximately 2 - 4 million sweat glands weighing about 100 grams.
• 
  
  The most concentrated areas of sweat glands are the soles of your feet, while the least concentrated area is on your back.
• 
  
  There are two kinds of sweat made by two types of glands – eccrine and apocrine. Eccrine sweat is odorless, apocrine sweat smells
• 
  
  Women have more sweat glands than men but perspire 40 percent less than the strong gender, because men are more active
• 
  
  For women, sex hormones progesterone and oestrogen are key players in regulating body temperature. Progesterone nudges the temperature up and oestrogen brings it down. Exercising women with higher oestrogen levels will become red-faced and sweaty earlier
• 
  
  The average adult loses 540 calories with every liter of sweat

By Elena Petko

---

Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

You nailed it.

Well, this is good stuff for somebody running a search about this problem, here. They will find this thread.

Bottom line, Drink More Gatorade, AND protein drinks won't stop this.

The search engine I use rocks because it sorts the stuff for you.

http://www.vivisimo.com/advanced?form=Advanced

took me no time to hunt this stuff down.

---

Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

No, I live in Maryland and the water is fine. It was just a bit of a joke.

The ammonia smell is coming from urea in your sweat.
When you metabolize protein, you have to eliminate nitrogen (N). The normal way is to excrete urea (CO(NH2)2) in the urine. If your kidneys can't handle the load (due to dehydration, perhaps), you may sweat ammonia (NH3).


You're metabolizing protein during your workout because your muscle glycogen stores are low or depleted. This is more common during anaerobic workouts because of thier glycogen depleting effect, but can happen during longer bouts of less strenous exercise. You swam, then ran 10miles. A long workout.... think about it...

People who don't swim also smell ammonia, so your theory doesnt hold water (is that a pun? :P).

Darn. I was about to give you my theory on "The Inner Mr. Clean" who comes out when I start smelling too foul.

I've been smelling ammonia post-run-workout on occasion for a few years. This is a post from almost ten years ago that seems to discuss the factors related to that. I thought I'd bump the thread in case anyone else is experiencing this.

I think people think they smell ammonia but its really just moist ass. Take a bath and scrub your bums stinkos.

Moist.

---

__________________________

I tweet!

Unfortunately, that isn't it.
My wife and a friend have this issue. Neither of them swim. The smell is a result of your body breaking down your muscles because there is not enough carbs in your carb/protein diet.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ammonia.htm
http://www.musclechemistry.com/...ls-like-ammonia.html
http://tnation.t-nation.com/...rb_and_ammonia_smell

My wife must take a HUGE amount of carbs for any runs that she does to prevent this. It ruins her desire to run (But she is a lifter) unfortunately.

To be clear, I was referring to the post I quoted and not to the original post. The one I quoted says the same thing you're saying: get more carbs and water.