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Taper for 40k
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How do you guys taper for 40k? It’s one of 2 A races for me this summer

Would doing a 40k race 6days before the race be a good, or bad idea?

The TT is pancake flat - but there is almost nowhere near me to ride for an hour straight (or anywhere flat).

So i was thinking the pre-race TT would be good practice. Thoughts?
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
How do you guys taper for 40k? It’s one of 2 A races for me this summer

Would doing a 40k race 6days before the race be a good, or bad idea?

The TT is pancake flat - but there is almost nowhere near me to ride for an hour straight (or anywhere flat).

So i was thinking the pre-race TT would be good practice. Thoughts?

I saw this on page two with no responses so I figured I would bump it even though I am no expert.

I am guilty of never tapering enough for any type of race whether is is bike, run, or tri.

I enjoy the training almost as much as the races and because I am middle of the pack and still have a lot of fitness gains to make, I just keep training and do shorter tapers.

If your 40k "A" race you think you have a chance of podium, then I would think another race 6 days before is not a good idea. If you are not going to podium anyhow, I would do both and have fun.

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
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Re: Taper for 40k [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
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There are a couple Cat1s in Texas that I can’t beat, but have a decent shot at winning Cat3 and being top 3-5ish overall in state.

I don’t think a 40k is long / hard enough to leave residual fatigue 6 days later ..
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Look at what trainer road says to do. They have a low/mid/high volume plan for the 40k.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
Would doing a 40k race 6days before the race be a good, or bad idea?

Very bad idea if six days before. Good idea if three weeks before.
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Re: Taper for 40k [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
mvenneta wrote:
Would doing a 40k race 6days before the race be a good, or bad idea?

Very bad idea if six days before. Good idea if three weeks before.

Why would a 40k one week out be a bad idea? With any decent fitness the fatigue from a 40k is relatively low. Having a fresh run through of gear, warm up and pacing would only help A race execution. IMO tapering for a <60' bike TT is pretty minimal. Cut volume the week-of by 20%, do a hard race type effort a few days out, do your regular openers. Not like a big tri, marathon or even RR.

It's too bad coggan got himself off this place, he would tell you to do a 40k the day before.
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Re: Taper for 40k [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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I understand benefit of taper. But a 40k TT seems a bit different than tapering for IM or a marathon

It’s just not that long of an effort...
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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If you post on here and ask a question, people answer the question, and then you argue with their answers, why post in the first place? It seems like you think you should do both, so do both.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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The length of the effort doesn't really matter. As an example, in swimming, the shorter the event you are peaking for, the longer the taper (in general). It's not uncommon for sprinters, who are peaking for a 20-50 second long event, to taper for 3 weeks prior to the goal meet. But some distance swimmers perform best if they don't taper at all. It's really individual, but honestly a 40k TT a week out should be fine, in my view. Probably a good thing, in fact.

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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:


I understand benefit of taper. But a 40k TT seems a bit different than tapering for IM or a marathon

It’s just not that long of an effort...

Read the first link. It's about tapering for a 40K TT.
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Re: Taper for 40k [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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Karl.n wrote:
It's too bad coggan got himself off this place, he would tell you to do a 40k the day before.

Only fools would do a 40K TT the day before @ threshold power. It's perfectly fine to do a few shorter intervals at threshold to open up the legs.
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Re: Taper for 40k [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I was thinking the same thing...

It's not really the length of the event that drives the taper (e.g. you would taper for a short swim, a 5k, etc) and you'd also taper for a long race like an IM

I've always tapered for every event, and would generally never consider racing a week prior to an A race...
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Physically you won't have any problem going hard a week earlier, but I don't think you're able to inflict as much damage on yourself during the race if you've already done it 6-7 days earlier. Doing something like 2 x 20min at your goal watts 10days out would probably be my best recommendation. Just done reduce the volume too much.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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What I'm doing for a May 5th 40k?

This weekend is normal training.
Sat - 3.5 to 4 hours of steady tempo and threshold efforts. Probably 230ish TSS
Sun - 2 hour hard group ride. Probably 140-150ish TSS

Mon - Easy spin (normal)
Tues to Thurs - I normally do 85-120 TSS each day, but I'll likely be doing 70-95 as part of my "taper"
Friday - Off (I usually do an easy spin)
Sat - 90 minute spin with some short efforts.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
Would doing a 40k race 6days before the race be a good, or bad idea?

I suck at recovery and I'm old, and I'd do it.

Our State TT is usually a week before the Moriarty 40k (actually 8 days), and I can recover in that time. Some old people at Moriarty actually race both days. Maybe they hold something back the 1st day, but I know I sure as hell don't feel like going again a day later. Even when I was young and raced on back to back days, I was always weaker the 2nd day.
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Re: Taper for 40k [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
Read the first link. It's about tapering for a 40K TT.

From the link, Dave Luscan's approach:

Everything was aerobars at this point
1 - 2 x 30 as hard as possible within a 95 minute ride, 3 x 1 minute very hard to finish.
2 - 90 minutes unstructured but mostly tempo in the aerobars the whole time
3 - 23 mile TT, race effort and gear rehearsal, 47 minute race, 60 minutes total on the bike
4 - 20 minutes easy, less than 50% of threshold
5 - 2 x 20 at projected 40k tt power, 70 minute ride
6 - off
7 - 10 minutes at 105% of projected 40k tt power within a 40 minute ride
8 - 45 minutes with 3 minutes at VO2 max (115%) and 2 x 5 minutes at 105% of projected 40k tt power.
9- off
10 - 25 minutes with 8 minutes at projected 40k tt power, 3 x 1 minutes very hard.
11 - 40k Race, feel as if a I nailed my taper perfectly. Almost exceed my stretch goal for the race. I had periods of somewhat extreme volume for an amateur athlete earlier in the year.



He did a hard interval workout 10 days before, a 23mi TT 8 days before, and 2x20s at FTP 6 days before. That certainly doesn't support your contention that racing a week before is a bad idea.

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Re: Taper for 40k [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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That plan looks bigger than my normal weeks, and isn’t a taper for me :) :)

I’m going to do the best 40k i can tomorrow On roads near me, and see what my legs feel like a few days later.

Then I will assess if I can “race” the practice race before the real thing.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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i generally recovery quicker from hard rides than hard runs.
i hard 40k effort followed by a another 7 days later is not that big a deal.
spin easy for a few days after the first effort to recover then do a few low volume, hard effort workouts 3 and 5 days after and spin the day before and you'll do fine.
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Re: Taper for 40k [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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I have done 40k TT races on back to back days all out both day with no reduction in power on day 2, but I was in my late 40s then and only pushing 315ish watts, both sub 52min events IIRC and both "warm" set the still current course record on day 2 for that event

it is an individual thing, if you know you can do it, ie you don't take forever to recover its fine back to back days, hell some people do back to back 40k TTs on the same day in 2 separate categories, times usually within 1 min. most I have ever done on same day is back to back 30k cuz that is enough suffering for me

ymmv
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Re: Taper for 40k [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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For the du this Sunday, 5k 30k 5k (not a runner, I'm a biker).......I actually did a full balls out practice TT of about 9ish miles on Wednesday, then Friday did a nearly balls out hilly 5k run. And that Monday or Tuesday I had done 3x8min at 105%. Off Saturday. Raced Sunday. I set new 5k run PR's on both run legs and did pretty well with pace on the bike (3rd OA for bike leg). Again, I don't run. So a PR for me would be hobbling around for some folks.

Week before that, I hit about 550 TSS combined run/bike with some volume at SS pace. Like an 8mi run and a couple 30mi SS bike rides.

I exceeded all my expectations.

All that to say.................Generally you won't accumulate enough TSS from an hour of TT a week before for it to matter. Especially since it's the bike and not running.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
It's not really the length of the event that drives the taper (e.g. you would taper for a short swim, a 5k, etc) and you'd also taper for a long race like an IM
Well that goes against the current thinking anyway. General rule: the shorter the event the longer the taper. Short events like track cycling require a very long taper - weeks even.

Back to your question: I'm with those that think a 40k is not particularly demanding, and doesn't require too much thought to plan around. I think you *should* do the one a week before, as it will be good mental training and will help you get used to holding your TT position under race power, without causing undue stress. (Last year I did IMSC70.3 a week before our state championship TT and then had a great run.) Other than that I would roughly follow Dave Luscan's program (cited above). I find taking the day off two days before to be helpful, and then an easy ride with a few race level efforts the day before. Other than that, don't crush yourself in the week before and you're good.
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Re: Taper for 40k [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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lanierb wrote:
mvenneta wrote:
It's not really the length of the event that drives the taper (e.g. you would taper for a short swim, a 5k, etc) and you'd also taper for a long race like an IM

Well that goes against the current thinking anyway. General rule: the shorter the event the longer the taper. Short events like track cycling require a very long taper - weeks even.

Back to your question: I'm with those that think a 40k is not particularly demanding, and doesn't require too much thought to plan around. I think you *should* do the one a week before, as it will be good mental training and will help you get used to holding your TT position under race power, without causing undue stress. (Last year I did IMSC70.3 a week before our state championship TT and then had a great run.) Other than that I would roughly follow Dave Luscan's program (cited above). I find taking the day off two days before to be helpful, and then an easy ride with a few race level efforts the day before. Other than that, don't crush yourself in the week before and you're good.

Thanks for clarifying on taper length... I figured it was top end intensity, but that goes with length now that I think more about it.

I did 40k at about ~97% on Saturday, with ~1500ft of rolling hills, and think by Wednesday / Thursday (if not sooner), I'll be back to full strength. Leaning towards doing the training race for reasons you laid out.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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I did a full on 60 min effort again this week (7 days after I did my last one), and hit a new 60min PR by ~8 watts. I had a bit more to give.

So for me - 6 days was plenty of rests between 60 min efforts.

I'm going to do a 40k prep-race this weekend (aiming for a few watts higher, see if I hit another PR, or blow up....), and then the actual race the following weekend.
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Re: Taper for 40k [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
That plan looks bigger than my normal weeks, and isn’t a taper for me :) :)

I was tapering off a couple dozen 20 hour weeks.
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