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Tabata Protocol...
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Hi there... Would like to know your thoughts about it and if you add then to your
training routine? For instance once a week, once in a month...

Have searched in the Forum, but only found examples of HIIT training and not really about the Tabata protocol (warm up, 8x20s+10s active rest and warm down).

Yesterday I did it for the first time, it was really painfull, when it was the 5th interval it was hurting pretty bad, I was able to finish all the 8 sets, just to see watts dropping from 612 to 483.

What are your experiences? Thanks!
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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What is this Tabata Protocol? Never heard of it before.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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Works well if you are a Crit or cyclocross racer.

BoulderCyclingCoach.com
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [rockdude] [ In reply to ]
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I did them through the winter as part of my 'cross training.

As you said 8 (or even 6 to start off with) x 20s ABSOLUTE MAX with 10s inbetween. Truly a horrible experience.

I remember the first time I did them thinking "this is going to be a doddle" and not finishing the 6 reps !!!!

Enjoy !

LG
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [nickag] [ In reply to ]
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nickag wrote:
What is this Tabata Protocol? Never heard of it before.

Here you go.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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As part of my CX training we use them every week as certain stages in the year - and vary the efforts/recovery ratio - but hey if you can push out well over FTP - it all has to be good eh?

Strongly recommend then - but also use a Repeat Set I got off TP--- this is a killer:

10 secs max - 1 min recovery - 20 secs max 1 min -- etc to 1 min max 1 min recovery -- 5-8 min spin between and then go again - the coach (apologies cannot recall his name) says he has only met one pro cyclist who can do 4 sets. So a great variation on Tabata. We start with 2 sets and then move to 3 after a couple of weeks!!!

Have fun and have a bucket ready!!! :-)

Graham Wilson
USAT Level III Elite Coach
http://www.thewilsongroup.biz
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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lcparlatto wrote:
Hi there... Would like to know your thoughts about it and if you add then to your
training routine? For instance once a week, once in a month...

Have searched in the Forum, but only found examples of HIIT training and not really about the Tabata protocol (warm up, 8x20s+10s active rest and warm down).

Yesterday I did it for the first time, it was really painfull, when it was the 5th interval it was hurting pretty bad, I was able to finish all the 8 sets, just to see watts dropping from 612 to 483.

What are your experiences? Thanks!

Did you do these indoors/outdoors? If indoors, which trainer and settings?
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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I used to do these on the trainer. They hurt like hell but knowing that it'll be over soon makes them doable
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [dfroelich] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks a lot for the feedbacks!!!

I did it indoors this time, but I'm willing try to it outside also. I've setup the "protocol/intervals" on my Garmin (920XT), the trainer is the CycleOps JetFluit Pro. The power data comes from the P1 pedals.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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Cool, thanks.
I'm mostly curious to hear which power trainers are able to ramp so severely, so quickly.

Certainly, I can set mine to a pretty tough resistance and shift up a bunch to hit the watts, but was hoping to do it a little more automated.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [dfroelich] [ In reply to ]
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Lemond or Revbox for example. However both are not smart trainers. Otherwise Wattbike.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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I tried them with the usual gusto and, as usual, got injured.

They're supposed to be done flat out, but the examples I saw on youtube showed cyclists remaining seated when obviously you can get greater power standing.
So, I did them on a 10% hill, standing and, because I was pulling so hard on the handlebars, I damaged my elbows!

They'll make your legs stronger if you survive.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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These intervals are done at maximum, all-out effort, and thus put you in L6 (Anaerobic Capacity) or L7 (Neuromuscular Power). As a result, they do very little to help you increase lactate threshold for TT or the bike leg in tri. However, they will help your fast twitch fibers. Tabata protocol doesn't get mentioned much here because this forum is all about slow-twitch fibers, haha.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lcparlatto] [ In reply to ]
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As usual, some good info here and some misinformation. If you read the research on Tabata, the papers show that they are mainly effective at increasing VO2Max. That's really the point of them. Increasing VO2Max can be helpful in shorter TTs (even 30-60mins), though it's probably not going to help a lot for long course triathlon.

I don't think Tabata's are all that widely used by endurance athletes. I'm speculating here, but I think the main reason is that they are so hard. Some people can bang out two sets of them (8 reps/4 minutes each set), but even two is pretty darned hard. And then you've only done 15-20 minutes of workout, so that seems like a bad tradeoff in the quality/quantity domain. Most people would prefer to do something like 6x4mins to work on VO2Max, which really isn't a long workout either. I honestly don't know which is better, and never seen research comparing those two workouts, but for what most of us do it seems like 24mins in zone ought to be pretty helpful, not to mention not as painful (though still painful!).

OTOH, if you only have 10-15 minutes to work out, I am pretty confident that Tabata's are about the best workout you could possibly do. There's tons of research supporting that.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
These intervals are done at maximum, all-out effort

170% of VO2Max in the original study. Which means that almost none of the people doing "Tabata" intervals are actually doing Tabata intervals.

Custom Studio Manager for Diamondback Bikes.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
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These intervals are done at maximum, all-out effort


170% of VO2Max in the original study. Which means that almost none of the people doing "Tabata" intervals are actually doing Tabata intervals.

True. And in the original study a good chunk of the participants could not do 8 reps to complete a set. But even they saw remarkable improvement.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:

True. And in the original study a good chunk of the participants could not do 8 reps to complete a set. But even they saw remarkable improvement.

Which really underlines the key to the protocol; intensity. Sacrifice the reps to hit the output level. Pretty much the opposite of what most folks who claim to be doing these things wind up doing.

...and, let's face it; the vast majority of people simply can't complete a set at the prescribed output level. This stuff is hard.

Custom Studio Manager for Diamondback Bikes.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
...and, let's face it; the vast majority of people simply can't complete a set at the prescribed output level. This stuff is hard.
I can't even come close, and I'm usually good at VO2max intervals.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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Tabata intervals are not useful for non-drafting triathletes of any distance. I actually can't think of a workout that has a worse cost/benefit ratio. Lets start with physiology.

We have two energy systems
aerobic
anaerobic

the aerobic system is more efficient. As endurance athletes, we want to train the aerobic metabolic system to produce most of our ATP throughout our event, because it is more efficient and will get us across the finish line faster.

the anaerobic system is less efficient. athletes who perform shorter events rely on this system to help produce power/speeds beyond what the aerobic system is capable of. The problem with this is that you will fatigue much more quickly once activating the anaerobic system due to its inefficiency.

Improving our aerobic system can be done by pushing up the aerobic ceiling (vo2max intervals) or by improving aerobic efficiency (endurance and threshold training)

When you do short explosive intervals you are activating the anaerobic system, prematurely fatiguing your body and thus not taxing the aerobic system for nearly as long longer sustained interval.

vo2max intervals should be done at your 8-10 minute power/pace
ideal lengths are 2-5 minutes, with equal rests.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [Thebigturtle] [ In reply to ]
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Thebigturtle wrote:
Tabata intervals are not useful for non-drafting triathletes of any distance. I actually can't think of a workout that has a worse cost/benefit ratio. Lets start with physiology.

We have two energy systems
aerobic
anaerobic

the aerobic system is more efficient. As endurance athletes, we want to train the aerobic metabolic system to produce most of our ATP throughout our event, because it is more efficient and will get us across the finish line faster.

the anaerobic system is less efficient. athletes who perform shorter events rely on this system to help produce power/speeds beyond what the aerobic system is capable of. The problem with this is that you will fatigue much more quickly once activating the anaerobic system due to its inefficiency.

Improving our aerobic system can be done by pushing up the aerobic ceiling (vo2max intervals) or by improving aerobic efficiency (endurance and threshold training)

When you do short explosive intervals you are activating the anaerobic system, prematurely fatiguing your body and thus not taxing the aerobic system for nearly as long longer sustained interval.

vo2max intervals should be done at your 8-10 minute power/pace
ideal lengths are 2-5 minutes, with equal rests.

I usually cut down the quoted parts of posts to only the relevant bits but almost every sentence of your post is misguided so I quoted the whole thing.

Tabata training has been shown to increase VO2Max.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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RChung wrote:


Tabata training has been shown to increase VO2Max.



Has it been shown to do so in an athlete population other than the original "Young male students majoring in physical education..?" (the most famous 1996 study) Or " Fifty-five untrained college-aged subjects?" (2015 study by Foster, et al.)

My PubMed skillz may be lacking, but I couldn't locate a study of Tabata intervals performed on highly trained subjects. Particularly those not foreign to other forms of high intensity training stress.
Last edited by: trail: Apr 8, 17 6:33
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
RChung wrote:


Tabata training has been shown to increase VO2Max.



Has it been shown to do so in an athlete population other than the original "Young male students majoring in physical education..?" (the most famous 1996 study) Or " Fifty-five untrained college-aged subjects?" (2015 study by Foster, et al.)

My PubMed skillz may be lacking, but I couldn't locate a study of Tabata intervals performed on highly trained subjects. Particularly those not foreign to other forms of high intensity training stress.

Laursen and Jenkins have done some studies on highly-trained cyclists and triathletes, though a deeper problem is that (as we've seen above in this thread) "Tabata" has been used to describe many versions of "high-intensity interval training". Tabata himself has used both 7-8 intervals and 5-6 intervals. I think he's used 170% of VO2Max for the intensity, but lots of other researchers have used intensities from 120% of VO2Max on up as "high-intensity interval training." Nonetheless, all the studies I found showed that HIIT (in whatever variation or flavor was being used) had effects both on anaerobic and aerobic capacity, either when supplementing or when replacing a portion of "standard lower-intensity endurance training."

The loose summary is that just cuz you train outside of the "aerobic" zone doesn't mean there's no "aerobic" effect.

Anyway, here's one link to a Laursen and Jenkins paper. Here's another.

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Re: Tabata Protocol... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
RChung wrote:


Tabata training has been shown to increase VO2Max.



Has it been shown to do so in an athlete population other than the original "Young male students majoring in physical education..?" (the most famous 1996 study) Or " Fifty-five untrained college-aged subjects?" (2015 study by Foster, et al.)

My PubMed skillz may be lacking, but I couldn't locate a study of Tabata intervals performed on highly trained subjects. Particularly those not foreign to other forms of high intensity training stress.

There was a thread a few years ago re "the death of 2X20" I don't know if the study they referenced is publicly available, but I paid the 20$ for it.

In summary it was 3 sets of 13X30 sec with 15sec "float" or soft pedal/rest. vs 5X6 or something like that.

These guys weren't your average couch potatoes, IE VO2 from 4L to 6L IIRC.

Anyways even in highly trained (talking AG highly trained) VO2 increased for the majority.

Also power was low for that VO2 but increased quite a bit across the board (In Norway so I speculate that maybe these guys were Xskiers)

Would have to re-read to get exact details but that is the gist as I remember it.

Cheers,
Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
RChung wrote:


Tabata training has been shown to increase VO2Max.


Has it been shown to do so in an athlete population other than the original "Young male students majoring in physical education..?" (the most famous 1996 study) Or " Fifty-five untrained college-aged subjects?" (2015 study by Foster, et al.)
Tabata training is one of the most studied protocols (perhaps the most studied). It has been shown to increase VO2Max in everyone from highly trained individuals to the old and feeble. That's kind of what makes it interesting.
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Re: Tabata Protocol... [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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RChung wrote:
Anyway, here's one link to a Laursen and Jenkins paper. Here's another.

Another paper worth reading: http://journals.plos.org/...journal.pone.0073182
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