I do not know how many of you heard about Spencer Smith being DQ'd from this years Ironman world Champs in Hawaii? Well, I did, and being an 'unbiased' Brit it got me thinking...... I can empathise with how disappointed Spencer Smith must have felt after being DQ'd from Hawaii this year, after all the training and preparation, and why? DRAFTING, DRAFTING, DRAFTING... the scourge of triathlon, it ruins a great sport and unless we can overcome it we will never progress. I am not 'just' an armchair athlete with an opinion, a few moons ago I had my own experience of drafting in Hawaii. I had a reasonably good swim and was doing OK on the bike when the legendary and obligatory draft 'legal' packs caught up with me. What to do? Race on with the hoard and risk being DQ'd? Hell no, I was never going to win, my race was within and I was damn sure I didn't want it to prematurely end by the side of the Queen K at the hands of some well intended draft marshal, so I sat back and let them go. Consequently I lost time hand over fist and reached halfway in a slower time than a training ride, but by Hawi the hangers on had been exposed in the hills and I was able to resume my race again. I am proud of Ironmans history but isn't it time we moved into the 21st Century? And I propose we do it by legalising drafting! Now before you all bite my head off and call me all the names under the sun just ponder on this question. Who should the ultimate triathlete be, the best swimmer, the best cyclist, or the best runner? Answer: none of course, the best triathlete should be the best all rounder. So lets level the playing field a bit, make the swim 10k, make the bike 100k and draft legal, and then lets have the jewel in the crown the marathon.That way each discipline would be around two and a half hours long for the fastest and truly the best triathlete would win. Whilst we are really shaking things up lets encourage innovation (not go the way of UCI), remove bike design regulations, allow fins in the swim, whatever, as long as the athlete is the engine what's the problem? It would make triathlon for far more appealing to manufacturers and spectators alike and thus inject some much needed cash into the sport. I hear you cry "The swim is too long people won't enter!" Good I say the tougher the race the better, lets make just finishing Ironman the holy grail it once was. "Its not safe", safety need not be compromised either the athletes could swim three circuits and pop onto land at the end of each lap sort themselves out, refuel, put on a different coloured swim cap to make it easy to marshal and dive back in. "Drafting is for cheats, triathlon is an individual sport" Agreed, but the field should be nicely spread out by the end of the swim and with a shorter, faster, and more furious bike section to follow let them draft if they have the legs to do so. Ironman has always been a race of body and mind so lets not be scared to mix in some more tactics. I am sure there are one hundred and one problems with my simplistic idea, but have you got a better one? In the 21st Century Ironman I could race until my legs dropped off and have no excuses at the end, Spencer would not be stood on the tarmac dreaming of what might have been and the best triathlete would win a fair race in our inspirational and cutting edge sport Just an idea to put the cat amongst the pigeons AndyA
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Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
Only got the energy to address one of your points - the "let's change the distance" proposal.
Ironman has a history, however short. It's that length for a reason to do with 3 races in Hawaii 30 years ago (well, I guess also one in Greece a faw years before that as well). It's caught people's imagination not only because of the scale of the challenge, but also the slightly irrational roots that it has. Look at any of the sports that really get the spine tingling - marathon, TdF, Oxford-Cambridge Boat Race (I'm a Brit). They all combine real roots with an irrational, unfair, weird distance course. None of them has a de facto world record. And that's why people love them. Every year is magical, irrespective of the time.
Every now and then there's some nut (not you, I realise you're just attempting to get some discussion going around this stuff) who suggests that the Tour should go back to 2 weeks 'cause it's too hard, or that the Boat Race should be held over a straight course where neither crew gets the advantage of bends. And therein they display that they just don't get the innate beauty and history of what they're talking about.
Cheers.
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses—behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights"
Ironman has a history, however short. It's that length for a reason to do with 3 races in Hawaii 30 years ago (well, I guess also one in Greece a faw years before that as well). It's caught people's imagination not only because of the scale of the challenge, but also the slightly irrational roots that it has. Look at any of the sports that really get the spine tingling - marathon, TdF, Oxford-Cambridge Boat Race (I'm a Brit). They all combine real roots with an irrational, unfair, weird distance course. None of them has a de facto world record. And that's why people love them. Every year is magical, irrespective of the time.
Every now and then there's some nut (not you, I realise you're just attempting to get some discussion going around this stuff) who suggests that the Tour should go back to 2 weeks 'cause it's too hard, or that the Boat Race should be held over a straight course where neither crew gets the advantage of bends. And therein they display that they just don't get the innate beauty and history of what they're talking about.
Cheers.
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses—behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights"
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
One simple solution to the drafting issue would be to have wave starts. It wouldnt cure it but it certainly would help.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Fizzy]
[ In reply to ]
hmmmm. interesting. a sport for wheelsucking ultra distance swimmers who like to jog ?? well, one nice thing would be the fact that there wouldn't be any lines at the porta-johns for the seven or so racers.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Fizzy]
[ In reply to ]
Agreed the Ironman is beautiful
But dont forget, it has already changed dramatically since that day in 1978 that John Collins and Gordon Haller dipped their toes in the water. You no longer do the Waikiki Rough Water Swim, the around Oahu bike race, or the Honolulu marathon. Until 1981 the race never even took place on the 'Big Island'. In 1982 the cut off time was introduced and now many do not finish (inside the new time), thats not progress in my book. If I had my way the gun would go off and the first one back would win the coverted golden cup, (or whatever) no prize money, no age groups, no sexism, no rules, just sports(wo)manship. But we have rules, lots of them and the drafting rule is sapping the life out of the sport. Why not change the distances, and reduce the rules, after all its the spirit of the event that counts?
I am not saying my way is the right way, but its a way forward. We don't have to axe Hawaii, just drafting and cut down on all the bureaucracy!
Back to you
AndyA
But dont forget, it has already changed dramatically since that day in 1978 that John Collins and Gordon Haller dipped their toes in the water. You no longer do the Waikiki Rough Water Swim, the around Oahu bike race, or the Honolulu marathon. Until 1981 the race never even took place on the 'Big Island'. In 1982 the cut off time was introduced and now many do not finish (inside the new time), thats not progress in my book. If I had my way the gun would go off and the first one back would win the coverted golden cup, (or whatever) no prize money, no age groups, no sexism, no rules, just sports(wo)manship. But we have rules, lots of them and the drafting rule is sapping the life out of the sport. Why not change the distances, and reduce the rules, after all its the spirit of the event that counts?
I am not saying my way is the right way, but its a way forward. We don't have to axe Hawaii, just drafting and cut down on all the bureaucracy!
Back to you
AndyA
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [t-t-n]
[ In reply to ]
Fizzy
Or a balanced race, which is too open and fast to wheel suck .... and why are we jogging the marathon?
AndyA
Or a balanced race, which is too open and fast to wheel suck .... and why are we jogging the marathon?
AndyA
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
Good diatribe to get discussion going. You have a good idea, but Hawaii is the wrong theatre for it. Running has several world-class marathons, cycling has grand tours and world cups, tennis has the grand slam, etc. Look for Dan Empfield's article on Nice-Distance racing on the main site for a good opinion piece on this topic.
One correction on someone's Greece reference, which I assume referred to a marathon. The original Olympic marathon was something like 23 miles. They extended it when the Olympics were in London so the runners could pass by the spot where the queen was watching the race and still finish where it was intended. That's why there is a tradition about cursing the queen at the 23-ish mile mark of the race. (Sorry, no time to research the exact dates and distances...)
Nothing is sacred.
One correction on someone's Greece reference, which I assume referred to a marathon. The original Olympic marathon was something like 23 miles. They extended it when the Olympics were in London so the runners could pass by the spot where the queen was watching the race and still finish where it was intended. That's why there is a tradition about cursing the queen at the 23-ish mile mark of the race. (Sorry, no time to research the exact dates and distances...)
Nothing is sacred.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
well andy i think the issue would be one of precedent. since you bring up the term, "balance" is what this event would lack - and lack in spades. as a precedent the 10K swim is wildly disproportional to what people as a whole do. there are 100 mi bike rides and marathons by the hundred, and recreational particpants in these events by the tens of thousands or more. how many 10 K OW swims are there?? i could personally name a hundred people i actually know who have ridden their bikes 100 miles, and done marathons off the top of my head. the only person i can even think of that has swam that far is that heavy set gal who greased herself up with crisco, got in a shark cage, drafted a boat, and swam from cuba to key biscayne, or bermuda to haiti, or grenada to tegucigalpa or whateverthehell and then went on the tonite show with her face swollen all up from jellyfish toxin. as they used to sing on sesame street, " one of things just doesn't belong". a 10K swim is that thing.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
Sounds like a great idea to me. Why don't you organise it, and see what the turnout is like?
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [t-t-n]
[ In reply to ]
A 10k swim at roughly 1.5 hour IM pace (I'll slow it down from elite level since I gather from your post that you are not a swimmer) is about 4 hours and 15 minutes, assuming breaks and aid stations. 160k bike (100 miler) at 36k/h is, what, 4.5 hours or so. A marathon after those two things would be hell, mainly because the swim is no longer a warm-up for the rest of the day, but an actual athletic challenge.
A 10k swim is not totally unheard of, in fact it's not uncommon when you get into the open water arena. 5 k OW is more common for rec/masters swimmer, but there are swims from 1k to 40k+, recognized by FINA and your local swim federation.
I too know more people who have done 100k/mile bike rides (less support/logistics required, easier), but I think the guys who have done a 10k swim (wetsuit illegal, by the way) are pretty tough.
A 10k swim is not totally unheard of, in fact it's not uncommon when you get into the open water arena. 5 k OW is more common for rec/masters swimmer, but there are swims from 1k to 40k+, recognized by FINA and your local swim federation.
I too know more people who have done 100k/mile bike rides (less support/logistics required, easier), but I think the guys who have done a 10k swim (wetsuit illegal, by the way) are pretty tough.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [t-t-n]
[ In reply to ]
Well tim,
I don't suspect there are many 10k swims in WISCONSIN. By that reasoning I'd say no one cross country skis except those guys on tv every four years.
The 10k IS a bit much, but it does exist in ocean swimming. The 5k would be more in line.
Being a swimmer my largest regreat is that when the swim venue was changed from the "ROUGH WATER" swim the distance wasn't made longer to compensate. We now swi in water that's very placid, not at all the same.
And, Tim I'd like you to be in my support boat for the 10k swim in atlantic city this summer.
I don't suspect there are many 10k swims in WISCONSIN. By that reasoning I'd say no one cross country skis except those guys on tv every four years.
The 10k IS a bit much, but it does exist in ocean swimming. The 5k would be more in line.
Being a swimmer my largest regreat is that when the swim venue was changed from the "ROUGH WATER" swim the distance wasn't made longer to compensate. We now swi in water that's very placid, not at all the same.
And, Tim I'd like you to be in my support boat for the 10k swim in atlantic city this summer.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
Andy,
First, what's with the big bold letters?
Ahhhh, the old draft/no-draft discussion. Believe me. I hear what you are saying. The no-drafting rules worked best when the sport of triathlon was in it's infancy. Race fields were small and talent in the three disciplines was all over the map. Thus is was easy for people to adhere to and follow the no-drafting rules. The problem now, is that particularly in the big Ironman races, the rules are asking people to do something that is physically impossible to achieve. At certain times on the bike , particularly beteen 1:00 and 1:10 swim exit time, it is almost impossible to ride exactly to the non-drafting rules. Thus you get large legal and illgeal packs forming. Drafting marshalls help break things up, but they can't be everywhere all the time.
Honestly, I have always found the bike section in triathlon some what of an odd freak of a thing. Is it an TT? Well no not exactly. Is it a bike road race? Well, no not exactly. What is it then? I have always thought that triathlon is made up of three sports swimming cycling and running. When swimming and running, we can essentiually do anything we want, yet during the bike leg we have these odd hybrid rules, that are really only applicable during a triathlon bike leg. I am not saying allow drafting - with respect, given the lack of real cycling skills of many triathletes, this would be an accident waiting to happen. I don't think there is an easy solution. I do know and feel that to a certain degree we may have backed ourselves into a corner that is hard to get out of on this issue.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
First, what's with the big bold letters?
Ahhhh, the old draft/no-draft discussion. Believe me. I hear what you are saying. The no-drafting rules worked best when the sport of triathlon was in it's infancy. Race fields were small and talent in the three disciplines was all over the map. Thus is was easy for people to adhere to and follow the no-drafting rules. The problem now, is that particularly in the big Ironman races, the rules are asking people to do something that is physically impossible to achieve. At certain times on the bike , particularly beteen 1:00 and 1:10 swim exit time, it is almost impossible to ride exactly to the non-drafting rules. Thus you get large legal and illgeal packs forming. Drafting marshalls help break things up, but they can't be everywhere all the time.
Honestly, I have always found the bike section in triathlon some what of an odd freak of a thing. Is it an TT? Well no not exactly. Is it a bike road race? Well, no not exactly. What is it then? I have always thought that triathlon is made up of three sports swimming cycling and running. When swimming and running, we can essentiually do anything we want, yet during the bike leg we have these odd hybrid rules, that are really only applicable during a triathlon bike leg. I am not saying allow drafting - with respect, given the lack of real cycling skills of many triathletes, this would be an accident waiting to happen. I don't think there is an easy solution. I do know and feel that to a certain degree we may have backed ourselves into a corner that is hard to get out of on this issue.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
I may have been misinformed, but isn't the no-drafting rule in place for saftey reasons? I was under the impression that it was to avoid someone getting stabbed by another riders bar-end shifters, of getting a core sample taken out of your body if someone was to crash or get blown down by severe winds. I thought that was why the closed ITU aerobar and no "bullhorn" bars rule exists in the Olympic arena. Are the rules perfect? No. Could they alter the rules to maybe limit drafting to a certain number of seconds? I don't know. IMHO the reason we have the rules on the bike leg is that, with the exception of the "drive-by" punch to the gut that Lori Bowden took in 2000, we can't really do too much damage to other athletes while running or swimming. 1500 triathletes being allowed to draft for 112 miles is a lawsuit just waiting to happen.
Not being from a swimming background, I can't effectively argue for or against a 10K swim leg. But I can say that I would probably avoid a race with a 6.2 mile swim. Kevin is a fish and better yet coaches other fish, I'm an anchor in a wetsuit.
But what do I know.
- Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P. J. O'Rourke
Not being from a swimming background, I can't effectively argue for or against a 10K swim leg. But I can say that I would probably avoid a race with a 6.2 mile swim. Kevin is a fish and better yet coaches other fish, I'm an anchor in a wetsuit.
But what do I know.
- Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P. J. O'Rourke
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Kevin in MD]
[ In reply to ]
hey kevin in md, aka swim guru !! you have me there, my friend - now i know TWO people that have swum 10 K !! :) and, you earn bonus points for actually watching guys xc ski. but, as it happens in 7 days i will be on the starting line of the american birkebeiner with very close to 8000 other guys who ski more than once every four years ( that would make for one heck of a 10K swim field, unless i miss my guess). . .and now that i think of it the average time the gang will be out there will be close to 4 1/2 hours !! maybe we should add skiing to the race of the 21st century, too. :)
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Marlin]
[ In reply to ]
10km in 4h15'???
kicking? 2'/100 is 20' per 1km = 200' for 10km = 3h20'
and this is very slow...
kicking? 2'/100 is 20' per 1km = 200' for 10km = 3h20'
and this is very slow...
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
Andy, Andy, Andy,
Just as I get myself exited over the possibility of you building a monobladed, super-aero, sub 15 lb speed machine, you pull this "draft legal" argument. Why would anyone want to buy a bike design such as yours when they can get a significantly better aero advantage by wheel sucking in the middle of some pack of 19th Century designed bicycles? And since when is drafting a 21st Century concept?
You're killing me!!
Have a nice weekend.
E-Z
--It ain't a good idea to swim near MY bubbles!
Just as I get myself exited over the possibility of you building a monobladed, super-aero, sub 15 lb speed machine, you pull this "draft legal" argument. Why would anyone want to buy a bike design such as yours when they can get a significantly better aero advantage by wheel sucking in the middle of some pack of 19th Century designed bicycles? And since when is drafting a 21st Century concept?
You're killing me!!
Have a nice weekend.
E-Z
--It ain't a good idea to swim near MY bubbles!
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
Drafting would not allow the 21st century bike to emerge, as drop bars and closed end aerobars would be the rule. Ironman is the ultimate Time Trial, and making it have team tactics would make it a very boring race and belie the original intentions of the race when it originated.
I admit to not being a fan of draft-legal racing in general, and turning the Ironman into a marathon with a bath and a bike ride first would ruin what is a fine race.
I am not against the idea of your race, just against the idea it of replacing the Hawaii Ironman. There would be a few people who would love it, namely the people who like ITU-style racing. It would be good to have an "ultimate" ITU race.
And on the subject of Spencer Smith- he's a great athlete and I like him alot, but he deserved the DQ he got. He drafted- which is cheating. He was not competing in an ITU World Cup race, he was at the Ironman Hawaii.
I admit to not being a fan of draft-legal racing in general, and turning the Ironman into a marathon with a bath and a bike ride first would ruin what is a fine race.
I am not against the idea of your race, just against the idea it of replacing the Hawaii Ironman. There would be a few people who would love it, namely the people who like ITU-style racing. It would be good to have an "ultimate" ITU race.
And on the subject of Spencer Smith- he's a great athlete and I like him alot, but he deserved the DQ he got. He drafted- which is cheating. He was not competing in an ITU World Cup race, he was at the Ironman Hawaii.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [AndyA]
[ In reply to ]
Speaking of the 21st century ... everyone uses timing chips now so how about some device you could hang on your bars and on the rear of your seat that beeps or does something annoying to let you know if you're in the draft zone for too long.
I agree with the historic distance being important though. Changing it would be like changing the marathon to 20 miles so no one hits the wall or so that people can race faster and under 2 hours for television. As for drafting in crowded ironman races, I don't think that wave starts will help much. When I raced in Roth in 2001 there were packs all over the place. I had to keep dropping back whenever I was caught by a group so I could stay legal. I despise cheating and that is what drafting is. In most races when one person goes by you there is a choice to jump on the wheel and go or let them go. Individuals have the choice to cheat or not. I think it could be argued that stiffer penalties and more marshalls near the front of race would also help. I think that the 14-16 hour ironman racers (sorry if this offends anyone) are doing the race more for the finish and personal reasons so a little pack riding isn't going to result in huge differences in the standings. Also, I know that when I do an ironman I'm competing against myself and everyone else in the field. I feel that if I had a smoking bike split because of a pack ride that my race would be wasted because I cheated myself out of knowing what I had in the tank that day. I think that pros or competitive age group racers near the front of the race usually have more room to ride and no good reason to cheat (other than moving up in the standings). Having the marshalls concentrate their efforts there and being really harsh with the penalties, would stop cheating in the area of the race where it makes the biggest difference. Spencer Smith got DQ's because he made the choice to ride too close. There weren't 30 men trying to ride on one narrow part of the road like the huge packs you see an hour behind him. Why feel sorry for him? Don't get me wrong, I admire Spencer Smith. I love the way he took it wire to wire in Florida in 2001 and just crushed everyone, but at Hawaii this year he must have had a brain cramp or something and getting the DQ was deserved.
I wouldn't mind seeing an "anything goes" type of race with different distances. I probably wouldn't be interested in racing it for the same reason I'm not too interested in the ITU style of race... it just is not the sport that I love. If anyone does get a new race distance setup just don't call it an ironman.
I agree with the historic distance being important though. Changing it would be like changing the marathon to 20 miles so no one hits the wall or so that people can race faster and under 2 hours for television. As for drafting in crowded ironman races, I don't think that wave starts will help much. When I raced in Roth in 2001 there were packs all over the place. I had to keep dropping back whenever I was caught by a group so I could stay legal. I despise cheating and that is what drafting is. In most races when one person goes by you there is a choice to jump on the wheel and go or let them go. Individuals have the choice to cheat or not. I think it could be argued that stiffer penalties and more marshalls near the front of race would also help. I think that the 14-16 hour ironman racers (sorry if this offends anyone) are doing the race more for the finish and personal reasons so a little pack riding isn't going to result in huge differences in the standings. Also, I know that when I do an ironman I'm competing against myself and everyone else in the field. I feel that if I had a smoking bike split because of a pack ride that my race would be wasted because I cheated myself out of knowing what I had in the tank that day. I think that pros or competitive age group racers near the front of the race usually have more room to ride and no good reason to cheat (other than moving up in the standings). Having the marshalls concentrate their efforts there and being really harsh with the penalties, would stop cheating in the area of the race where it makes the biggest difference. Spencer Smith got DQ's because he made the choice to ride too close. There weren't 30 men trying to ride on one narrow part of the road like the huge packs you see an hour behind him. Why feel sorry for him? Don't get me wrong, I admire Spencer Smith. I love the way he took it wire to wire in Florida in 2001 and just crushed everyone, but at Hawaii this year he must have had a brain cramp or something and getting the DQ was deserved.
I wouldn't mind seeing an "anything goes" type of race with different distances. I probably wouldn't be interested in racing it for the same reason I'm not too interested in the ITU style of race... it just is not the sport that I love. If anyone does get a new race distance setup just don't call it an ironman.
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
You're right.
Kicking. With a drag suit. Against the current. In a storm. Pulling a boat...
Let's make the swim 15k instead.
***
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Allan]
[ In reply to ]
According to Spencer, he was no closer than the other pros in his "group". I haven't seen the video to determine if this is true or not. However, as a cynical Brit it seems like a bit of lets pick on that guy wearing pink. Another Triathlete was selected out of a group recently and she also was wearing pink!
I believe drafting in UK races on open roads is illegal according to the law. Getting a bunch of age-group triathletes drafting is a recipe for crashes as already said. But are we all getting too soft in the 21st century? The chance of seeing multiple wipe-outs, broken bones etc would boost TV coverage considerably!
My own feeling is that the race courses need to be designed better to break up drafting. Are there drafting complaints at races like Lanzarote or France?
I believe drafting in UK races on open roads is illegal according to the law. Getting a bunch of age-group triathletes drafting is a recipe for crashes as already said. But are we all getting too soft in the 21st century? The chance of seeing multiple wipe-outs, broken bones etc would boost TV coverage considerably!
My own feeling is that the race courses need to be designed better to break up drafting. Are there drafting complaints at races like Lanzarote or France?
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [t-t-n]
[ In reply to ]
t-t-n
Fair point, its only an idea of mine. But I think the race is proportional a 10k swim would take about 2 1/2 hrs as would a 100k bike and the a marathon for the worlds best. Thats the balance I am referring to. I once swam 9 miles straight off the bat in a Norwegian lake. 10k really isn't that far
AndyA
Fair point, its only an idea of mine. But I think the race is proportional a 10k swim would take about 2 1/2 hrs as would a 100k bike and the a marathon for the worlds best. Thats the balance I am referring to. I once swam 9 miles straight off the bat in a Norwegian lake. 10k really isn't that far
AndyA
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [Paul in AD]
[ In reply to ]
>>According to Spencer, he was no closer than the other pros in his "group". I haven't seen the video to determine if this is true or not.<<
As if video gives you a true picture. Not!
According to the Head Referree, he was in violation of the rules. Twice. And the Head Referree was the person who made the call. Your "pick on the Brit" (or the guy in the pink suit) is very much sour grapes.
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
As if video gives you a true picture. Not!
According to the Head Referree, he was in violation of the rules. Twice. And the Head Referree was the person who made the call. Your "pick on the Brit" (or the guy in the pink suit) is very much sour grapes.
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [jasonk]
[ In reply to ]
Yogi
I would love to organise one, maybe one day I will....
I would love to organise one, maybe one day I will....
Re: TAKING TRIATHLON INTO THE 21ST CENTURY [E-Z]
[ In reply to ]
E-Z
Nice to see your excited about one of my ideas!
I hate drafting, my idea is to really stretch the field out in the swim, and then make the bike hard and fast. Thereby hopefully making drafting rare or pointless. Don't make drafting illegal, just make it socially unacceptable, or poor sports(wo)manship to do it. With my grand plan only one person would win the race and the rest would be competing against themselves and the clock, the goal would be to finish. How good would you feel about a new PB if you sat on a riders wheel for 100k and then kicked their butts on the run?
E-Z I am new to this forum and have a lot of ideas built over years, forgive me if I sort of post them all thick and fast. As I have been at pains to say I am not saying I am right I am just interested to hear what other people think. After taking onboard all opinions if I have been enlightened and shown the error of my ways I will be big enough to admit it.
In my race I would win on my bike!! (in my world)
Cheers AndyA
Nice to see your excited about one of my ideas!
I hate drafting, my idea is to really stretch the field out in the swim, and then make the bike hard and fast. Thereby hopefully making drafting rare or pointless. Don't make drafting illegal, just make it socially unacceptable, or poor sports(wo)manship to do it. With my grand plan only one person would win the race and the rest would be competing against themselves and the clock, the goal would be to finish. How good would you feel about a new PB if you sat on a riders wheel for 100k and then kicked their butts on the run?
E-Z I am new to this forum and have a lot of ideas built over years, forgive me if I sort of post them all thick and fast. As I have been at pains to say I am not saying I am right I am just interested to hear what other people think. After taking onboard all opinions if I have been enlightened and shown the error of my ways I will be big enough to admit it.
In my race I would win on my bike!! (in my world)
Cheers AndyA
This is just a jumble of replies
Mass starts are great, I did IM Canada with a 1600 mass start it was like being in a washing machine, a fantastic survival of the fittest.
I can't comment on if Spencer did or did not draft, he said he did,t and I would like to believe him. Anybody out there who did see him draft and speak with authority? I really respect Spencers style of racing off the front, much like Maccas, but what is it with us Brits and pink? I always had Spence down as a bit of a fashion icon!
I have never drafted and could't race Hawaii because of it, I normally come out of the water just under the hour along with 100 others, how do you drop that many people?
Agreed Hawaii wouldn't be a good format to introduce this race, but I found its their that the problem is greatest as so many people are of a similar level, you have to fairly good (or win a lottery, and that's not Brit sour grapes, good luck to them!) to get there.
Hilly races are great, Embrum, Canada but Hawaii isn't flat either
I hate rules, (funny as I am a police officer!) but does anybody have any original ideas on how to deal with drafting, I haven't heard anything new for years?
In sport AndyA
Mass starts are great, I did IM Canada with a 1600 mass start it was like being in a washing machine, a fantastic survival of the fittest.
I can't comment on if Spencer did or did not draft, he said he did,t and I would like to believe him. Anybody out there who did see him draft and speak with authority? I really respect Spencers style of racing off the front, much like Maccas, but what is it with us Brits and pink? I always had Spence down as a bit of a fashion icon!
I have never drafted and could't race Hawaii because of it, I normally come out of the water just under the hour along with 100 others, how do you drop that many people?
Agreed Hawaii wouldn't be a good format to introduce this race, but I found its their that the problem is greatest as so many people are of a similar level, you have to fairly good (or win a lottery, and that's not Brit sour grapes, good luck to them!) to get there.
Hilly races are great, Embrum, Canada but Hawaii isn't flat either
I hate rules, (funny as I am a police officer!) but does anybody have any original ideas on how to deal with drafting, I haven't heard anything new for years?
In sport AndyA