T2 Technique

Apr 6, 07 12:06

Post #1 of 33 (10113 views)

For some reason (I'm not sure exactly "why" or if there is a definitive "why"), I am under the impression that this is how one is upposed to "begin" T2 for an Olympic or shorter distance:

1. Get your feet out of your shoes (you don't wear socks),
2. Then somehow get both feet to one side of the bike

before dismounting at the T2 dismount line.

Here are my questions:
Do these tactics really save time?
(For each and both together.)
How do you know?
It seems that if you employ these tactics, you have to slow down quite a bit near the transition area to do so. How much time do you really save as opposed to keeping your feet in, hauling ass and then using a "straight forward" dismount?

I am beginning (actually, continuing) to doubt much of the "generally accepted" wisdom such as "tapering" "carbo loading" etc. Just because something is generally accepted, doesn't mean it is even CLOSE to the truth.

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:10

Post #2 of 33 (10102 views)

It saves a boat load of time. It takes about 10 seconds total to get both feet out of your shoes if you practice it. You have to slow down and come to a stop either way when you approach the dismount line. You can hop off the bike without coming to a complete stop and then run barefoot straight to your stuff. If you do this with your shoes on you're going to run much slower and will then have to fumble with the cycling shoes when you get there. The only time I don't do a flying dismount is when it's raining real bad or the ground is real bad to run on barefoot.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:20

Post #3 of 33 (10076 views)

I agree on your general consensus skepticism.

However, the tactics mentioned here are pretty easy to prove the time benefit. Just go practice in a parking lot etc... clock one versus the other. It'e like arguing the time benefits of elastic laces versus regular... I have passed a number of people multiple times with this technique coming into T2 (90% of them repass me on the run mind you) and have never figured out why they don't jump on such an easy fix. The only explanation might be if you're not comfortable handling the bike. If that's the case it just takes some work to get it right.

If you watch the approach to T2 in any of the Versus IM broadcast you can seen the remarkable difference in how most of the pro men come in (running dismount) vs a number of the AG's and pro women.

---------------------------------------------
Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding it hurts.

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:33

Post #4 of 33 (10055 views)

You have to practice and practice it, but it makes a big difference, you can carry momentum over the dismount line and into transition, as opposed to if you stop, dismount and then have to run in cycling shoes. The only time I stop to dismount (My feet are still out of the shoes) are in longer races if my legs are too fried to get my right leg over the frame to have both legs on one side....

Adam

Euro-Sports.ca/The Foodery Team member

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:35

Post #5 of 33 (10046 views)

In Reply To:

I am beginning (actually, continuing) to doubt much of the "generally accepted" wisdom such as "tapering" "carbo loading" etc. Just because something is generally accepted, doesn't mean it is even CLOSE to the truth.

You mean... just because you question things that are already tried and proven, that doesn't necessarily mean you're an idiot? I'm not sure if I agree.

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:38

Post #6 of 33 (10025 views)

Good question. I think more people should pay attention to transition technique than spending money on their bike, particularly for short races. If you look at a results sheet of the pros vs average age groupers, you see that the pros are minutes not just seconds faster when combining T1 andT2--much larger differences than any bike equipment can generally provide, and its free.

Post deleted by Administrator [ In reply to ]

Martin C

Apr 6, 07 12:41

Post #7 of 33 (10017 views)

Re: T2 Technique [Martin C] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:44

Post #8 of 33 (10001 views)

and how much time do you waste unclipping (well 0 for that), coming to a complete stop, leaning the bike, putting one foot down at a time and then running to your rack with the sidis on?

You can dismount while still moving and start running immediately bare foot.
It's pretty much a no brainer.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:46

Post #9 of 33 (9996 views)

Go to a race and watch. It makes more sense when you see it.

I get my feet out of the shoes and on top of them. Then, approaching the dismount line at 20+mph, I swing my leg over the saddle so I'm standing on the left pedal. At the dismount line I tap the breaks and jump off so as to hit the ground runnning. It's a rare race when anybody comes close to my time in T-2. Here are the T-2 times for my AG at Sentinel last year. Mine was the :43, and you can bet the guys over 2:00 were all clomping around in their bike shoes. You can see I took more than a minute from the tenth guy, ten seconds off #2 and a full 30 seconds off #3. The best part is that there is absolutely NO cost in terms of calories consumed, oxygen debt, etc.
00:00:43
00:00:53
00:01:13
00:01:24
00:01:29
00:01:30
00:01:32
00:01:32
00:01:37
00:01:46
00:01:47
00:01:52
00:02:10
00:02:19
00:02:23
00:02:30
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00:03:20
00:04:25
00:05:20
00:05:21
There is a similar boost in T-1, once you get it all working, but the T-2 move doesn't even require any practice.

Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Re: T2 Technique [jonblyer] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:49

Post #10 of 33 (9978 views)

"It takes about 10 seconds total to get both feet out of your shoes"

I don't even take my feet completely out - just my heels - and it takes even less time.

I wasn't convinced this was faster until our club held a transition clinic last year. After watching how fast one of the pro racers went through the two transitions - he was in from the mock swim, T1, bike out, ride around a parking lot, through T2, and out for the run - before some people even had their bike shoes on in T1. I practiced for about 20 minutes before my first race last year and both my transitions were around 30 seconds. The slowing to remove my heels coming toward T2 is negligible. It's not as if I'm coming to a stop to do this.

Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!

Re: T2 Technique [Tri2HaveFun] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 12:54

Post #11 of 33 (9964 views)

I don't even take my feet completely out - just my heels - and it takes even less time.[/reply]
I'm gonna try that, thanks.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

Re: T2 Technique [Paulo] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 13:08

Post #12 of 33 (9947 views)

getting the feet out of the shoes is easy
getting them to one side of the bike . . not so
even with my foot on the ground, getting "unstraddled" is difficult
I can't spread my legs too well

I'm not trying to rationalize not doing it
(I usually do the first, haven't mastered part 2)
I am trying to justify if practicing it is worth it

like the guy who has the tagline
"speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have the cake"

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 13:22

Post #13 of 33 (9922 views)

There are 2 ways to do it

1- The throw the leg behind the bike and around- need a little flexibility here

2- Just stand up and pop one leg up and over the top tube to the dismount side. This is also better if you have high bottles on the back.

:-)

I'm still working on it myself...

Jodi

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 14:05

Post #14 of 33 (9876 views)

It like most of us got off of our bikes as kids. We just swung the right leg (usually) over the seat, which is much easier when you are several inches higher off the ground than with your feet unclipped, but this time swing that right leg between the frame and the left leg and step off running. The running barefoot is definitely faster than running in cleats. When you get to your stuff, just pull on your running shoes and go. My last Oly I won my AG by ~15 seconds. Maybe it didn't matter, but....

BTW, I also do the shoes on mount, but I don't do the 'Hi!Yo! Silver!' mount. I just step on the left shoe, swing over to the right shoe and pedal off, etc. It's not quite as fast as the nut buster method, but it's pretty quick.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

Last edited by: docfuel: Apr 6, 07 14:06

Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 19:12

Post #15 of 33 (9765 views)

Does the collective wisdom of Slowtwitch recommend that rubber band trick to hook their shoes to the chainstay??

--Roberto

Representing:
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Re: T2 Technique [Curvy Boy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 07 19:37

Post #16 of 33 (9743 views)

Haven't read the other replies, so this has probably been covered already...

It's like a cyclocross dismount. With the added benefit of not having to unclip while making the move.

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Re: T2 Technique [jonblyer] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 7:50

Post #17 of 33 (9676 views)

It takes about 10 seconds total to get both feet out of your shoes if you practice it.

You might try a pair of shoes without 3 straps, a buckle, shoelaces and a zipper.

I think most people can get this done in 4 seconds or less; but since you're still moving on the bike while doing this, the clock time spent should be zero.

FWIW, the fastest way I've found to transition is by racking as close to the pavement & transition exit as possible. This gives you more time to peel a wetsuit while still moving, reduces the amount of cleat-to-dirt contact & shaves several seconds off your T2.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: T2 Technique [RogueClimber] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 7:59

Post #18 of 33 (9668 views)

I've always left my shoes in the pedals, but never did the elastics until a HIM race last year with a 700m run out to the mount line with the bike, I saved easily 10s, and had the fastest T1 time (I came into transition 2nd, 1sec behind the leader, I left 1st with a 15second lead).

Adam

Euro-Sports.ca/The Foodery Team member

Re: T2 Technique [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 8:40

Post #19 of 33 (9650 views)

10 seconds to get the feet out, let the shoes flop around and get both feet squared on top.

I think that's about right.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

Re: T2 Technique [jonblyer] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 8:51

Post #20 of 33 (9638 views)

If your still moving on the bike, coasting into T2, it's 0 seconds. Your asked if it actually saves time, and the answer is yes; whether it's 10=0 or 4=0, it's still 0. You're not allowed that kind of math while standing still in T2.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: T2 Technique [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 8:57

Post #21 of 33 (9631 views)

yes the overall is 0.
I was saying that it takes about 10 seconds while your still on the bike to get your feet out and put them on the shoes. You lose 10 seconds of pedaling, but that's about it.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

Re: T2 Technique [Jodi] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 9:06

Post #22 of 33 (9629 views)

This works very well for me...I think it helps to be taller if you try it this way.

Quote:

2- Just stand up and pop one leg up and over the top tube to the dismount side. This is also better if you have high bottles on the back.

Re: T2 Technique [jonblyer] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 11:02

Post #23 of 33 (9595 views)

You don't lose any seconds of pedaling; that's the whole idea of doing it while coasting into transition, where you have no choice but to slow down.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: T2 Technique [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 07 11:15

Post #24 of 33 (9581 views)

We're arguing about something pretty dumb, I'm sure you'll agree.

I'm done.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

Re: T2 Technique [jonblyer] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 07 4:21

Post #25 of 33 (9515 views)

Your seat's too high.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

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