Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!!

Jun 20, 18 10:17

Post #1 of 34 (3618 views)

I've had Shimano Ultegra syncro (synchro?) shift up and running on my TT bike for a few weeks now and am looking at getting rid of it. I don't mind the auto shift from small ring to big ring, that's pretty smooth and I have no issue with it. Going the other direction though, big ring to small ring, I REALLY want the ability to drop that when I need it to drop, at a moments notice. Currently, if I'm riding on a flat in say the 53/14, then turn into a steep hill, I have to shift about 6 times before I can get the front derailleur to drop. It then drops, and does the auto rear shift. By then all momentum is lost.
Even you're well aware of the hill coming up, you have to pre plan your shift and you end up letting off power way earlier than you would if you could just drop from big to small immediately.
It's one thing as a triathlete, maybe you lose some momentum. Kind of annoying, and a bit of time lost at worst. If I were a road cyclist in a race this would be a massive issue. How many times do you come up to a hill and need to drop to the small ring as soon as possible. Having to shift 6+ times to make that happen is crazy. You'd have all the guys behind you piling it to your ass while you wait for your derailleur to shift.
Even if I could program it to have the option of holding two buttons at once to shift the front derailleur. That would solve a lot. Like SRAM E-tap does if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise I'm going back to the previous double button shift options to control each derailleur separately.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 10:26

Post #2 of 34 (3594 views)

I saw a demo at my shop and thought it was stupid

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 10:30

Post #3 of 34 (3585 views)

Have you tried semi-syncro shift mode instead? The one where you control it except it auto shifts 2 gears in the rear when you change from small to big or big to small chainring? Wondering if that is more what you are looking for.

Otherwise I'm on fence about using syncro shift myself as I have the wireless unit but still haven't installed or set it up yet. But this is on a road bike so I prefer to have more manual control over the shifting.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 11:18

Post #4 of 34 (3525 views)

Quote:

If I were a road cyclist in a race this would be a massive issue. How many times do you come up to a hill and need to drop to the small ring as soon as possible. Having to shift 6+ times to make that happen is crazy.

Non-issue for road cyclists, because Synchro-shift doesn't prevent you from shifting the front ring whenever you want; you don't have to wait for syncrho-shift to kick in.

This is really only an issue for TT setups with only the 1-button shifters, which I agree is a lame setup (that's why I have the two-button version of the brifters on my TT bike).

I do agree they need to work on the timing for the big->small shift, they're way too conservative I guess to avoid dropping the chain, but the result is loss of power for a few seconds, which is unacceptable IMHO.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 11:22

Post #5 of 34 (3512 views)

T-Wurt wrote:

Going the other direction though, big ring to small ring, I REALLY want the ability to drop that when I need it to drop, at a moments notice. Currently, if I'm riding on a flat in say the 53/14, then turn into a steep hill, I have to shift about 6 times before I can get the front derailleur to drop. It then drops, and does the auto rear shift. By then all momentum is lost.

+1

I tried it for awhile and went back the other way because of this same thing.

Matt

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 12:22

Post #6 of 34 (3442 views)

Two observations . . .

1. You're doing it wrong.

2. Even when I'm doing it right, I hate synchro shift. Fortunately, changing shift programs is a couple of presses of the button away. Super easy. Then, no more complaints. Just perfect shifting every time. (But then, all four of the shifters on my Tri bike are 2-button shifters.)

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [FlashBazbo] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 12:54

Post #7 of 34 (3408 views)

FlashBazbo wrote:

Two observations . . .

1. You're doing it wrong.

2. Even when I'm doing it right, I hate synchro shift. Fortunately, changing shift programs is a couple of presses of the button away. Super easy. Then, no more complaints. Just perfect shifting every time. (But then, all four of the shifters on my Tri bike are 2-button shifters.)

1. No, not doing it wrong

2. I know about the different shift patterns and all that. I don't have two button shifters. Single on the extensions, single on the base bar. If I turned synchro off I would lose the ability to shift the rear derailleur from both base bar and the extensions.

What I'm probably going to do is take my two button brake levers off my old bike and put them on this one.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 13:02

Post #8 of 34 (3399 views)

loxx0050 wrote:

Have you tried semi-syncro shift mode instead? The one where you control it except it auto shifts 2 gears in the rear when you change from small to big or big to small chainring? Wondering if that is more what you are looking for.

Otherwise I'm on fence about using syncro shift myself as I have the wireless unit but still haven't installed or set it up yet. But this is on a road bike so I prefer to have more manual control over the shifting.

Semi-syncro would prevent you from using both the base bar and aero extensions to control the rear derailleur. At least on my single button shift points. If you had the double button shift points you could do the semi-syncro and still have rear derailleur control from both base and aero. But again, it's kinda pointless. It just assumes every single time you shift the front you'll also want to change the rear. Yeah, most of the time you probably do, but I'd say it's still best just to leave it and make the shift if you need it.

I've seriously racked my brain trying to find benefit in synchro shift. Maybe the only thing I like is the single button aero extensions. It looks pretty slick and seamless. I think with two button base bar shifting the issue would be solved.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [jsk] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 13:10

Post #9 of 34 (3384 views)

jsk wrote:

Non-issue for road cyclists, because Synchro-shift doesn't prevent you from shifting the front ring whenever you want; you don't have to wait for syncrho-shift to kick in.

This is really only an issue for TT setups with only the 1-button shifters, which I agree is a lame setup (that's why I have the two-button version of the brifters on my TT bike).

I do agree they need to work on the timing for the big->small shift, they're way too conservative I guess to avoid dropping the chain, but the result is loss of power for a few seconds, which is unacceptable IMHO.

Right, fair enough. I see how that wouldn't affect a road bike. It just does both if you want, yeah? As in; it'll shift front based on rear derailleur position, but you can ALSO shift front derailleur whenever you want. I guess that would make sense given you don't need two different shift points (base bar/extensions) for the rear. Wouldn't you just turn off the synchro shift in that case? I wouldn't even want to risk having the front derailleur shift automatically.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 13:14

Post #10 of 34 (3377 views)

I'm with you. I tried Syncr on my 6870 and thought it was very "meh". I mean... it doesn't get anything "wrong" and it never misses a shift but I've had a similar experience to you: flat to a rather sudden steep grade where the ideal shift is down one or two in the back and then big to small up front. Instead you need five shifts to get the same combo. Kind of a moot point since 1x12 will be upon us soon enough.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 20, 18 19:31

Post #11 of 34 (3236 views)

T-Wurt wrote:

Right, fair enough. I see how that wouldn't affect a road bike. It just does both if you want, yeah? As in; it'll shift front based on rear derailleur position, but you can ALSO shift front derailleur whenever you want.

Yeah, synchro shift is not all-or-nothing, you can still shift pre-emptively if you want (assuming you have buttons mapped to shifting the front ring). So IMHO there's really no reason not to have it enabled.

Quote:

I guess that would make sense given you don't need two different shift points (base bar/extensions) for the rear.

Even on my TT bike, I have synchro-shift enabled. I have one-button shifters on the extensions, and the two-button shifters on the base bar. This works out fine because if I'm shifting to the small ring I'm going to be on the bullhorns anyway. Honestly the only time I ever even use the small ring on my TT bike is maybe for interval recoveries (since the big ring is a 55T).

IMHO the only stupid thing Shimano did with synchro-shift was dropping the two-button shifting on the new brake levers. I just don't understand the thinking there.

Quote:

Wouldn't you just turn off the synchro shift in that case? I wouldn't even want to risk having the front derailleur shift automatically.

I have Synchro configured to only shift to the small ring if I'm about to shift to the 1-cog (ie big/big). Most of the time I'll shift before that happens anyway, but it's there for the times when I'm not too concerned with shifting speed. As you mentioned, going from small- to big-ring synchro works just fine, so I often don't other shifting manually in that case.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [jsk] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 18 1:22

Post #12 of 34 (3116 views)

Would it be hard for Shimano to add a 1 second button press to shift in the front? This would solve a lot of problems.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [Dan. S.] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 18 10:08

Post #13 of 34 (2947 views)

Dan. S. wrote:

Would it be hard for Shimano to add a 1 second button press to shift in the front? This would solve a lot of problems.

That would conflict with multi-shift, which IMHO is more useful. They would probably have do something like the simultaneous left/right press that SRAM eTap uses.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [jsk] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 18 10:30

Post #14 of 34 (2920 views)

jsk wrote:

Dan. S. wrote:

Would it be hard for Shimano to add a 1 second button press to shift in the front? This would solve a lot of problems.

That would conflict with multi-shift, which IMHO is more useful. They would probably have do something like the simultaneous left/right press that SRAM eTap uses.

Then that would negate one of Di2's biggest advantages over eTap which is quicker shifts. There's a slight of lag in the SRAM shifting as the system waits to verify that the rider isn't trying to simultaneously push both levers, but got one switch to contact momentarily ahead of the other.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 18 10:49

Post #15 of 34 (2888 views)

I also hate syncro shift. The thing I hate most is when I have a short hill that I'd rather power through in the big ring, but inadvertently shift to the small ring.

Dimond Bikes Superfan

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 18 20:40

Post #16 of 34 (2789 views)

ericlambi wrote:

I also hate syncro shift. The thing I hate most is when I have a short hill that I'd rather power through in the big ring, but inadvertently shift to the small ring.

Syncro shift is garbage, unless you're running 1x, then it's awesome.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [T-Wurt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 18 21:12

Post #17 of 34 (2772 views)

I have no idea why anyone would want to not have complete control of their gearing. Sometime I choose to complete cross cluster on a short climb and not have to go to the small ring as that gear is enough and the power required isn't too excessive as once over the top you are quickly trying to get to your 11.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 3:49

Post #18 of 34 (2681 views)

Glad to be reading this thread and discussion. Just to confirm because I have read various articles and want to be sure. Can Syncro be turned off on the TT drivetrain? This thread prompted me to do a bit more searching this morning and I had thought Syncro could be turned off if you did not like the mode. I take it from this thread that it may not be possible. If it is not an option on the TT di2 than I may stick with etap as that system has been working well for me on my road bike.

This was from an article but this review was from the road version.

Quote:

All that said, if this does indeed sound a bit too much, Shimano has also built in a get out clause, so users can opt to disable all Synchro Shift functions (simply select manual mode) and carry on using the gears in the way we always have.
It’s a 10 second process (that you can do from the mode button on the junction box) to switch between modes.

Quote:

But again, you decide, as every single button is programmable for whatever operation you want it to perform.
Basically it’s all about options – nothing is mandatory, so Shimano should in theory be catering for everyone and all different levels of riding experience.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 5:05

Post #19 of 34 (2641 views)

yes you can switch between modes (manual, semi-syncro and full syncro). if you add the d-fly unit, you can see which mode you're in on your garmin.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 5:27

Post #20 of 34 (2613 views)

Felt_Rider wrote:

Can Syncro be turned off on the TT drivetrain?

Yes, with an asterisk. You can cycle through your three pre-programmed shift modes with the button on the Junction A: Manual->S1->S2. That works the same with all bikes.

The asterisk is that the new TT shifters are all single-button. So, if you have the current gen brake levers and extension buttons, you only have one button each. If you select a manual mode or semi-synchro mode, you can only control the RD. In order to give yourself full control of both derailleurs, you would need the prior gen brake shifters and extension shifters that are all two-button each.

That said, I absolutely love synchro in my TT setup and will never go back. It is bliss. And, I like that my Garmin will beep to alert me when the next shift will trigger a FD shift.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 6:43

Post #21 of 34 (2563 views)

exxxviii wrote:

Felt_Rider wrote:

Can Syncro be turned off on the TT drivetrain?

Yes, with an asterisk. You can cycle through your three pre-programmed shift modes with the button on the Junction A: Manual->S1->S2. That works the same with all bikes.

The asterisk is that the new TT shifters are all single-button. So, if you have the current gen brake levers and extension buttons, you only have one button each. If you select a manual mode or semi-synchro mode, you can only control the RD. In order to give yourself full control of both derailleurs, you would need the prior gen brake shifters and extension shifters that are all two-button each.

That said, I absolutely love synchro in my TT setup and will never go back. It is bliss. And, I like that my Garmin will beep to alert me when the next shift will trigger a FD shift.

True, but you can get the brake/shifters with two buttons still and I can't think of a time I've ever gone from the big ring to the little ring while in aero.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 7:51

Post #22 of 34 (2530 views)

Quote:

I can't think of a time I've ever gone from the big ring to the little ring while in aero.

All depends on the race and course profile. We have a local weekly TT that includes 3+ minute steep climb in the middle of it. Some nights I'll just grind up in my big ring, but other nights I'll drop down to the little ring for the climb. Either way, all the climbing is down while in aero.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 7:58

Post #23 of 34 (2520 views)

exxxviii wrote:

I like that my Garmin will beep to alert me when the next shift will trigger a FD shift.

I don't use synchro but I, too, love the beep. For me (using the conventional shift pattern), the beep tells me that I don't have any more cogs at that end of the cluster. One less thing to think/wonder about.

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 7:59

Post #24 of 34 (2519 views)

Quote:

you would need the prior gen brake shifters and extension shifters that are all two-button each.

And what choice are you left with when you can't source these parts anymore?

Re: Syncro Shift thoughts. MEH!! [FlashBazbo] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 18 8:15

Post #25 of 34 (2493 views)

FlashBazbo wrote:

I don't use synchro but I, too, love the beep. For me (using the conventional shift pattern), the beep tells me that I don't have any more cogs at that end of the cluster. One less thing to think/wonder about.

I did not know it did that. That too is freakin' awesome. One of the "problems" with electronic shifting is that you have no clue where you are on the cluster.

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