Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique

Nov 14, 19 19:41

Post #1 of 31 (4654 views)

Hey guys, I am still pretty new to swimming and started swimming laps last January with pretty much no swimming back ground. I took a few lessons, swam a few times per week from Jan to May and managed to get through a few short course races and one HIM over the summer. I am currently stuck around the 2:00/100yrd range and lately have been focusing on putting in harder sessions each time I swim. I have been told that my time is better spent focusing on intensity in sessions rather than doing drills.

I watch videos in between sessions and try to be mindful of my technique each time I swim but I know there is a bunch of things I am probably doing wrong and it is hard to focus on fixing the faults when I am trying to get through my hard interval sets. I don't know if my time would be better spent focusing on the foundational stuff to get my stroke more efficient or if I should be hammering through workouts and just building fitness. I am wondering what some of you think about this concept as there seems to be mixed opinions on this. How would you spend your 3-4 swims per week if you were in my position? I am not looking to be front of pack swimmer any time soon but I would like to get my swim times down a few mins on last season.

Thanks!!

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 19 19:56

Post #2 of 31 (4640 views)

If you want to get better over the long term, then you absolutely need to work on technique. The fitness is important too, good technique is somewhat dependent on good technique, but your technical skills are and will be your limiter unless you work on them, irrespective of how much fitness you gain.

Also, just to clarify for you, technique work can include drills, but not necessarily.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 19 19:59

Post #3 of 31 (4635 views)

It’s not an either or proposition. You can do both and you should do both while you are training.

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Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 19 21:02

Post #4 of 31 (4596 views)

As previously mentioned not all technique work comes from drills. I learned to swim 3 years ago and am a 1hr Ironman swimmer and I have never once done a drill. I have had people watch my technique and critique but also watch swimming tutorials and during my easy sets I focus on those. If you are doing a 3000yd swim, not all of that is hard intervals and during warm up, cool down and easy sets in-between focus on your form. Then there are your recovery swims where you may have 5x300yd focusing of straight body and technique etc and throwing some 100s in between the sets. There should definitely be a balance between both.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 4:02

Post #5 of 31 (4459 views)

Read this:

https://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Good_Form_3273.html

It will help you.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 4:10

Post #6 of 31 (4446 views)

I’ll add to my previous thoughts that with where you are currently, literally everything needs to have a technique focus. That means even on those hard intervals, maintain the best form you can and work on improving one thing (just one at a time). If you feel like things are deteriorating, then stop, rest and regroup, then try again

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 4:54

Post #7 of 31 (4384 views)

If you are ever at a point in your workout where you know your technique is failing due to the effort then it's probably time to back off and regroup. The danger as an adult learner is that you are promoting the wrong motor patterns which will become a hard limit in the future. The fitness part of the equation can be improved to it's fullest extent no matter what your age - if you do the work and practice perfectly.

The only time I'm not actively thinking about my form is when I'm racing. At that point I can only hope my perfect practice is with me on race day and my job is to gauge the effort correctly.

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- Lionel Sanders

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 4:57

Post #8 of 31 (4376 views)

JasoninHalifax wrote:

I’ll add to my previous thoughts that with where you are currently, literally everything needs to have a technique focus. That means even on those hard intervals, maintain the best form you can and work on improving one thing (just one at a time). If you feel like things are deteriorating, then stop, rest and regroup, then try again

Agree. That's how i approach training too. I'm slow but without the little technique i have, i'm 'dead in the water'. But without swim fitness , i can't finish an Ironman. So I need both and I guess you too.

Also, although i havent progressed much in terms of pure speed, I do find that it takes significantly less energy for me to complete an IM swim than two years ago. Difference between almost fainting when exiting the water and smiling to friends and fam on my way to T1. That's improvement too!

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 5:38

Post #9 of 31 (4331 views)

Fellow adult onset swimmer here and definitely agree with the gist of all these posts. I am in the pool 3-5x a week and mix up shorter faster sets with moderate and easy longer sets, working my way up to faster somewhat longer sets. It has taken me 9 months minimum for technique improvements to “sink” in- pardon the pun- I was such a sinker early on- coming from lots of powerlifting and being athletic but not a cyclist or swimmer. I am now starting to feel much more like I am chill in the water- I’m not fighting it, my legs are finally higher, I have less of a kind of looney tunes illusion when I am swimming. Feels smoother. Building fitness has happened in conjunction with major technique improvements. Now I have a LONG way to go. Your 2:00/100y is my strong pace :). But that no longer feels like I’m desperate to be finished. So yes- work on technique and work on speed —for variation- because you won’t leap forward in speed without technique improving. It’s definitely a bigger limiter than fitness.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 6:14

Post #10 of 31 (4279 views)

I go as hard as anyone in the pool, and I do drills EVERY SINGLE SESSION. There is no choice between technique work or fitness; it has to be both. I do drills in my warmup every. single. time. It improves my feel for the water/ body position early, then I can take that technique through the main set.

As others have also said, 'technique work' doesn't just have to be drills. It includes things like pull sets, kick sets (especially without a board) to work on body position, using an ankle band, sculling, etc. Doing those things will build swim-specific strength that will allow for better technique.

-----

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 6:17

Post #11 of 31 (4275 views)

Can't you do both?

What's your CdA?

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 6:23

Post #12 of 31 (4258 views)

Optimal_Adrian wrote:

I go as hard as anyone in the pool, and I do drills EVERY SINGLE SESSION. There is no choice between technique work or fitness; it has to be both. I do drills in my warmup every. single. time. It improves my feel for the water/ body position early, then I can take that technique through the main set.

As others have also said, 'technique work' doesn't just have to be drills. It includes things like pull sets, kick sets (especially without a board) to work on body position, using an ankle band, sculling, etc. Doing those things will build swim-specific strength that will allow for better technique.

THIS^

My warmup is usually some variation on SKPS, but the first swim is usually actually a drill aimed at establishing good catch, trying to avoid crossover, and stretching out and getting some length in the stroke.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

FindinFreestyle

Nov 15, 19 6:48

Post #13 of 31 (4216 views)

Same old false dichotomy. Looks like it's been dispelled from this thread, but it will be back.

You only have so much awareness. It shifts back and forth between effort and technique, but very rarely should you focus 100% on effort. Effort can be put on semi-autopilot and awareness can be directed at technique.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 7:00

Post #14 of 31 (4202 views)

Thanks guys, your replies have all been SUPER helpful. There are a lot of great points here and I will definitely take these on board with my training. I appreciate the feedback.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 7:01

Post #15 of 31 (4201 views)

Do both. You shouldn’t abandon good technique when swimming faster. You should always focus on technique no matter your speed.

Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Nov 15, 19 20:48

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 9:37

Post #16 of 31 (4082 views)

jaretj wrote:

Read this:

https://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Good_Form_3273.html

It will help you.

Classic article! One of slowman’s best.

When I saw the subject line of this thread, I immediately thought about this article. Thanks for posting the link.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 10:23

Post #17 of 31 (4044 views)

FindinFreestyle wrote:

Same old false dichotomy. Looks like it's been dispelled from this thread, but it will be back.

You only have so much awareness. It shifts back and forth between effort and technique, but very rarely should you focus 100% on effort. Effort can be put on semi-autopilot and awareness can be directed at technique.

This.

My competitiveness used to put "winning" and effort in practice ahead of form. In hindsight I think that was a big mistake. In my defense, people didn't know as much about proper technique way back when I was doing that. Now I always concentrate on technique, and sometimes I put as much load on that technique as I can.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 10:41

Post #18 of 31 (4022 views)

@ OP - Agree with all above (re: technique + fitness), but for you, if you're like most newish AG triathletes, you're lucky to see even a single week of 10k yards in training, and probably average <7k per week.

At <7k/wk, you can still make real progress from the BOP, but it's very tough for most AGers to get toward the top 20% without more than that at some point. The good part is that once you've hit that higher level of performance, it's a LOT easier to either maintain or get back there later on.

It would be helpful as a reference point to know how much you swam per week on avg before, and what' you're shooting for realistically. And yes, it's very hard for triathletes doing balanced training to get enough swim volume in - I swam probably only 6-7k/wk in my last race cycle (darn bike/run time commitments!), which unfortunately translated to a drop from my typical speed, so I'm trying to refocus on a winter swim block to try and push up my swimming before race season.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 14:31

Post #19 of 31 (3882 views)

JasoninHalifax wrote:

I’ll add to my previous thoughts that with where you are currently, literally everything needs to have a technique focus. That means even on those hard intervals, maintain the best form you can and work on improving one thing (just one at a time). If you feel like things are deteriorating, then stop, rest and regroup, then try again

This. Work on both but not isolated. Technique is only good if you can keep it together at race paces.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 20:06

Post #20 of 31 (3751 views)

Optimal_Adrian wrote:

I go as hard as anyone in the pool, and I do drills EVERY SINGLE SESSION. There is no choice between technique work or fitness; it has to be both. I do drills in my warmup every. single. time. It improves my feel for the water/ body position early, then I can take that technique through the main set.

As others have also said, 'technique work' doesn't just have to be drills. It includes things like pull sets, kick sets (especially without a board) to work on body position, using an ankle band, sculling, etc. Doing those things will build swim-specific strength that will allow for better technique.

This is a subtlety often overlooked. Of course, a swimmer needs to kick as well as pull, and most triers don't like to do much in the way of kicking, unless it is with fins. :)

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 19 22:11

Post #21 of 31 (3699 views)

I don’t think it entirely comes down to swimming ‘hard’ versus technique.

With volume, your body should adjust to the most efficient way to accomplish a certain distance, provided that your form is productive. If you don’t know what proper form should be, it might be time to seek instruction or do more research.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [rbd32] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 0:18

Post #22 of 31 (3642 views)

I'd like the successful swimmers take on the intensity or extend thread. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

For years we've been asking your question of swim hard or focus on technique.

When past volume / easy swimming might be separating AOS from those who started swimming much younger. Do we not have enough hours/experience in the pool so that we think that the two choices are to swim with intensity or focus on technique?

OK swimmers what do you think of 80/20 session wise or 90/10 time wise training as it relates to swimming and this thread?

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [IT] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 3:58

Post #23 of 31 (3581 views)

IT wrote:

I'd like the successful swimmers take on the intensity or extend thread. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

For years we've been asking your question of swim hard or focus on technique.

When past volume / easy swimming might be separating AOS from those who started swimming much younger. Do we not have enough hours/experience in the pool so that we think that the two choices are to swim with intensity or focus on technique?

OK swimmers what do you think of 80/20 session wise or 90/10 time wise training as it relates to swimming and this thread?

What does 80/20 session wise mean?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 4:41

Post #24 of 31 (3555 views)

JasoninHalifax wrote:

IT wrote:

I'd like the successful swimmers take on the intensity or extend thread. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

For years we've been asking your question of swim hard or focus on technique.

When past volume / easy swimming might be separating AOS from those who started swimming much younger. Do we not have enough hours/experience in the pool so that we think that the two choices are to swim with intensity or focus on technique?

OK swimmers what do you think of 80/20 session wise or 90/10 time wise training as it relates to swimming and this thread?

What does 80/20 session wise mean?

My understanding is that only 1 out of 5 swim sessions would be hard and the rest would be easy swimming. And even in the 1 hard session only half of it would be hard (at or above race pace) and that would be the 90/10 timewise of the total weekly workout.

My probably wrong impression of swim training is that very little easy swimming is done. Like 90 percent of the time it's hard intervals at or above race pace. There were also some runners who would do hard interval training all the time and be successful too.

Does anyone succeed in swimming with easy swimming? Training physiology now has skiers, rowers, runners and cyclists going easy with 80 percent of their workouts.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Swimming hard vs focusing solely on technique [IT] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 5:58

Post #25 of 31 (3517 views)

IT wrote:

JasoninHalifax wrote:

IT wrote:

I'd like the successful swimmers take on the intensity or extend thread. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

For years we've been asking your question of swim hard or focus on technique.

When past volume / easy swimming might be separating AOS from those who started swimming much younger. Do we not have enough hours/experience in the pool so that we think that the two choices are to swim with intensity or focus on technique?

OK swimmers what do you think of 80/20 session wise or 90/10 time wise training as it relates to swimming and this thread?

What does 80/20 session wise mean?

My understanding is that only 1 out of 5 swim sessions would be hard and the rest would be easy swimming. And even in the 1 hard session only half of it would be hard (at or above race pace) and that would be the 90/10 timewise of the total weekly workout.

My probably wrong impression of swim training is that very little easy swimming is done. Like 90 percent of the time it's hard intervals at or above race pace. There were also some runners who would do hard interval training all the time and be successful too.

Does anyone succeed in swimming with easy swimming? Training physiology now has skiers, rowers, runners and cyclists going easy with 80 percent of their workouts.

There’s actually a lot of easy swimming involved in elite level swimming (just because its an interval doesn’t mean that it’s hard) but no one breaks it up in the way you describe as 4 easy sessions and one hard session.

It’s far more common to structure the week so that certain sessions are focused on different things. Eg Monday might be aerobic recovery, Tuesday morning aerobic threshold, Tuesday night devoted to non free strokes, one day one kick, etc... within each session there will be hard intervals and easy swimming. Generally more easy than hard. Even something like 10x100 on 10s rest, best average, isn’t that hard until you get at least halfway through the set.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

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