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Swimming Kick
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Our local pools are back open and I have been trying to swim about 3 times a week in the morning. Didn't think i would miss it that much, but it is something I will totally wake up early to get in now. One thing I have been doing is working on my kick more. I got injured in January with a pretty bad glute pull and one thing I did during that time was kick a lot more since I couldnt run (I was training for Boston so was run specific with my workouts). I feel like it really helped all my leg muscles and ligaments stay stretched out and provided resistance to muscle groups I wasn't working while running (I think). When I got back to running after 2 months it was like I didn't miss a beat.

Either way, I feel like my kick fucking sucks. I have been using fins and the board and slowly increasing the distance I kick during a session. Typically once a week I will be more kick focused, but I am not sure if I am seeing any improvements. Is there anything I can do that will help increase the amount of power or force I generate with my kick? I think it is helping with my core strength, but it def burns up my legs, especially around my glutes, adductors, and in general upper muscles of my legs. I had read that ankle flexibility is a big thing with the kick and was thinking maybe the fins would help aid in that by putting more resistance on those ligaments (that was my logic anyways). Today I swam 2200 yards with 700 of that being kick between sets.

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Re: Swimming Kick [AlyraD] [ In reply to ]
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AlyraD wrote:
Is there anything I can do that will help increase the amount of power or force I generate with my kick?

Yes.

Kick.

And Kick

And Kick

And Kick

In all serious though, good for you. In my estimation kicking is often jettisoned too soon by AOS and Triathlete swimmers. It's really hard but I always believe that you need to learn how to kick so that you don't have to kick in a race. Many swimmers' kick gets in the way because their ankles are too inflexible to point the toes back and remove the aqua-anchor. Yes, ankle flexibility is key here, but it's a balance for runners and cyclists to develop swimmer levels of flexibility without sacrificing stability in their other endeavors. Excellent swimmers/kickers will generally be able to put their toes on the floor with their legs straight out.

On the fin front, they are a double edge sword. While fins can help strengthen your legs they often mask the inneficencies in your kick motion, and depending on the size of fin slow down you kick too much. Try using short fins (zoomers, or the like) rather than scuba-length fins.

When you kick make sure that, yes, you're starting your kick from the hip, but that your leg is not locked out like a board. You want your whole leg to be working like a whip. Make sure you're not only kicking on a board, but also on your back, and when you do, your knees should not be breaking the surface - only your toes.

Is that enough for now? I'm happy to talk more about the joys of kicking, and am somewhat immune to the naysayers around here ;) I made 2 significant jumps in my swimming career, coming off broken collarbones where all I could do was kick for 8-12 weeks, so I'm all in on the kick train.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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Re: Swimming Kick [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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+100 what tallswimmer said


daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: Swimming Kick [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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tallswimmer wrote:
AlyraD wrote:
Is there anything I can do that will help increase the amount of power or force I generate with my kick?

Yes.

Kick.

And Kick

And Kick

And Kick

In all serious though, good for you. In my estimation kicking is often jettisoned too soon by AOS and Triathlete swimmers. It's really hard but I always believe that you need to learn how to kick so that you don't have to kick in a race. Many swimmers' kick gets in the way because their ankles are too inflexible to point the toes back and remove the aqua-anchor. Yes, ankle flexibility is key here, but it's a balance for runners and cyclists to develop swimmer levels of flexibility without sacrificing stability in their other endeavors. Excellent swimmers/kickers will generally be able to put their toes on the floor with their legs straight out.

On the fin front, they are a double edge sword. While fins can help strengthen your legs they often mask the inneficencies in your kick motion, and depending on the size of fin slow down you kick too much. Try using short fins (zoomers, or the like) rather than scuba-length fins.

When you kick make sure that, yes, you're starting your kick from the hip, but that your leg is not locked out like a board. You want your whole leg to be working like a whip. Make sure you're not only kicking on a board, but also on your back, and when you do, your knees should not be breaking the surface - only your toes.

Is that enough for now? I'm happy to talk more about the joys of kicking, and am somewhat immune to the naysayers around here ;) I made 2 significant jumps in my swimming career, coming off broken collarbones where all I could do was kick for 8-12 weeks, so I'm all in on the kick train.

I will say that anyone in the M50-54 AG should never work on their kick, ever.

For people outside of that AG, the other thing I like is to kick on your side, bottom arm outstretched. I'll do that either with a tiny kickboard (something like the Finis alignment board, aka the dorito) or no board.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Swimming Kick [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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tallswimmer wrote:
AlyraD wrote:
Is there anything I can do that will help increase the amount of power or force I generate with my kick?


Yes.

Kick.

And Kick

And Kick

And Kick

In all serious though, good for you. In my estimation kicking is often jettisoned too soon by AOS and Triathlete swimmers. It's really hard but I always believe that you need to learn how to kick so that you don't have to kick in a race. Many swimmers' kick gets in the way because their ankles are too inflexible to point the toes back and remove the aqua-anchor. Yes, ankle flexibility is key here, but it's a balance for runners and cyclists to develop swimmer levels of flexibility without sacrificing stability in their other endeavors. Excellent swimmers/kickers will generally be able to put their toes on the floor with their legs straight out.

On the fin front, they are a double edge sword. While fins can help strengthen your legs they often mask the inneficencies in your kick motion, and depending on the size of fin slow down you kick too much. Try using short fins (zoomers, or the like) rather than scuba-length fins.

When you kick make sure that, yes, you're starting your kick from the hip, but that your leg is not locked out like a board. You want your whole leg to be working like a whip. Make sure you're not only kicking on a board, but also on your back, and when you do, your knees should not be breaking the surface - only your toes.

Is that enough for now? I'm happy to talk more about the joys of kicking, and am somewhat immune to the naysayers around here ;) I made 2 significant jumps in my swimming career, coming off broken collarbones where all I could do was kick for 8-12 weeks, so I'm all in on the kick train.

Hey tallswimmer, I have been working on my kick in all 4 strokes now for 3 years. My big challenge is dolphin kick on my back at the surface. I can't seem to do this without getting all kinds of water up my nose (and for the life of me, swimming iwth a nose clip makes me feel like I am dying).

I agree about using the leg as a whip. For dolphin kick I am trying to use my entire body as a whip below my chest, but I have found that this translates to regular freestyle and back stroke kick, basically initiating the tick at the top of my abs (same thing you want to do when you are sprinting as a runner, it all start way up higher).
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Re: Swimming Kick [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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your post seems a bit self-serving... hahaha

so let me add the 45-49 ag now to your list
daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: Swimming Kick [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
My big challenge is dolphin kick on my back at the surface. I can't seem to do this without getting all kinds of water up my nose (and for the life of me, swimming iwth a nose clip makes me feel like I am dying).

I doubt there is a better exercise for you than dolphin kicking on your back. Good for you at trying to learn it.

HEre are some tips, hopefully something works:
Focus on the DOWN of the dolphin kick, not the up
Put your head back more than what seems right
Smaller faster kicks
Really point your toes
Focus on keeping your HIPS at the surface of the water
Don't breath out your nose, hum instead.
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Re: Swimming Kick [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
tallswimmer wrote:
AlyraD wrote:


Hey tallswimmer, I have been working on my kick in all 4 strokes now for 3 years. My big challenge is dolphin kick on my back at the surface. I can't seem to do this without getting all kinds of water up my nose (and for the life of me, swimming iwth a nose clip makes me feel like I am dying).

I agree about using the leg as a whip. For dolphin kick I am trying to use my entire body as a whip below my chest, but I have found that this translates to regular freestyle and back stroke kick, basically initiating the tick at the top of my abs (same thing you want to do when you are sprinting as a runner, it all start way up higher).

I agree with everything tallswimmer said.
As for dolphin kick I had the same problem you are when I was an actual swimmer... I would try to use my whole body in the dolphin motion. I learned late in my swimming career it was better to have the top half of my body serve almost as a streamlined anchor and everything below the chest work the kick in that whip motion. This way you stay in a more streamlined position and your large muscle groups in your core and legs drive you forward.

The Race Club has some EXCELLENT youtube videos by Gary Hall Sr. that go over this.

I swim fast because I'm afraid of sharks.
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Re: Swimming Kick [AlyraD] [ In reply to ]
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Some random thoughts and advice
  • Don't worry so much about developing power from your kick, as much as using it to develop good, strong, taut body position - which will come from consistency and endurance (I would steer towards longer kick sets, 100-400 yd, rather than 25-50 yd kick sets)
  • Working on a good kick is not only about a focus on the leg motion/dynamics - try to keep your upper body and shoulders as still as possible (don't rock side to side) when you're kicking
  • Kicking on your back is great to mix in, both butterfly/dolphin and flutter kick
  • Almost every swim session, I have part of my warm-up incorporate a lot of kicking. Sometimes alternating kick and swim, e.g. 4 x 200 yd, with each 200 as a 50 kick, 50 swim (repeat)
  • When kicking on my stomach, I always use a snorkel and no board (with thumbs interlaced out front). I find that a better way to work on a good body position.

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Re: Swimming Kick [tanzbodeli] [ In reply to ]
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tanzbodeli wrote:
Some random thoughts and advice
  • Don't worry so much about developing power from your kick, as much as using it to develop good, strong, taut body position - which will come from consistency and endurance (I would steer towards longer kick sets, 100-400 yd, rather than 25-50 yd kick sets)
  • Working on a good kick is not only about a focus on the leg motion/dynamics - try to keep your upper body and shoulders as still as possible (don't rock side to side) when you're kicking
  • Kicking on your back is great to mix in, both butterfly/dolphin and flutter kick
  • Almost every swim session, I have part of my warm-up incorporate a lot of kicking. Sometimes alternating kick and swim, e.g. 4 x 200 yd, with each 200 as a 50 kick, 50 swim (repeat)
  • When kicking on my stomach, I always use a snorkel and no board (with thumbs interlaced out front). I find that a better way to work on a good body position.

I like to do 4-6 x 200 IM swim/kick as part of my warmup, e.g. swim 25, kick 25 of each stroke with no board. It seems to enable me to concentrate better on each 25 b/c I'm changing the focus every 25. YMMV.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Swimming Kick [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely 100%+

And don’t forget the upkick.

Here’s an article I wrote a while back on the why behind the kick and why not kicking is about as efficient as running with your arms at your sides. https://www.active.com/...cking-while-swimming[/url]

You swam with Marsh’s elite team? Were you there at the same time as Camille?

Tim

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com
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Re: Swimming Kick [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, I swam in Charlotte with Dave Marsh from 07-08 Trials. i was in the first group there before Camille - my teammates included Gangloff, Jones, and Hoelzer among others.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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Re: Swimming Kick [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Cool. I coached her a bit when she was an age grouper at Magnolia Aquatic Club.

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com
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Re: Swimming Kick [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the advice! I will def start incorporating longer kick sets when I get to the pool and check out some of those shorter fins you mentioned. The ones my Y have are the longer ones, but it will probably behoove me to buy my own gear.

When i do kick sets, I typically will swim or do a particular drill for 100 or 200, then in between those sets I will throw in 100 kick. Do you think some longer, continuous kick sets would be better occassionally?

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7
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Re: Swimming Kick [AlyraD] [ In reply to ]
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AlyraD wrote:
Thanks for the advice! I will def start incorporating longer kick sets when I get to the pool and check out some of those shorter fins you mentioned. The ones my Y have are the longer ones, but it will probably behoove me to buy my own gear.

When i do kick sets, I typically will swim or do a particular drill for 100 or 200, then in between those sets I will throw in 100 kick. Do you think some longer, continuous kick sets would be better occassionally?

yes. if you're just doing 100 kick that's not a whole lot of time spent kicking. I spend some time almost every practice (at least when I was able to get in the pool so many months ago) doing a small kick set, and sometimes throw in a big one.

Another thing i like, is to do sets where you do a hard 50 or 100 kick, then immediately go into another 50 or 100 swim.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Swimming Kick [AlyraD] [ In reply to ]
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Yes- you can't just kick a bit then back off, you've got do prolonged kicking to learn how to keep you legs loose and efficient while fatigue sets in. And, as Jason says, learn to swim on fatigued legs.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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