A couple of years ago, I finally got around to asking this guy in my age group (45-49), who consistently was among the top bike splitters in every race he did, how he got so fast on the bike.

"I was on the 1980 Olympic cycling team."

Oh.

(yes, the team that didn't go to the Olympics. I looked him up and saw him ahead of Lemond in one Nat'l Championship crit race)

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Your use of the word "rape" in context makes a decent statement sound dumb and insensitive. Also, please stop throwing around your "pro card" status. You have a collegiate elite license. Not the same at all.

From talking with him, my guess is that Duffy couldn't care less whether he races pro or AG. He doesn't have anything left to prove as an amateur, that's for sure.

How about this:

What's the point of even having a "pro" classification? The only thing it really means is that you are eligible for prize money and you get to start in the first wave. How about we just get rid of it all together. The very top athletes can still be "pros" in the sense that they try to make a living doing this, but there is no title. If a race offers a prize purse 10 places deep, the top 10 athletes get that prize purse. It doesn't matter who you are, how old you are, or if you consider yourself a "pro" or not.

At the end of the day, eveyone is a human and racing each other. Having a pro card doesn't make you a super human. Everyone should race and compete together. People seem to think that they shouldn't have to race against pros because they are just too good. Get over it, were all the same, and if someone beats you, they beat you.

The fact that there are even races like AG Nationals is a joke in my opinion. Sweet, you won your age group and now your a "national champion" except you were not racing against the best people in the sport. What's next? A national championship for people that can't do an olympic under 2:30? "Hey look at me!! I'm the M18-24 2:30+ National Champion!!!!" If you think about it, thats exactly what the AG National Championship is. You're the best triathlete in a category that doesn't include the best triathletes. Sweet.

There should be two categories in this sport: Men and Women.

She also had about 9 athletes who traveled from CO to race as well, my girlfriend being one of them. Susan is one of the most humble athletes I have ever met and I assume she just wants to compete and support her athletes. She was just as excited as we were to qualify for New Zealand.

If some "needed" the win and didn't get it, then they can use this as motivation to train harder.

Shane

It says the same thing thing as Macca's license or anyone else's, but that doesn't matter. I'm the first one to admit i'm not that great, but in a discussion of pro vs amateurism it is relevant to include some personal info to give some context for one's opinions.

As for Brian, he's a brilliant triathlete, and he definitely has had an amazing amateur career. It's a shame he graduated a few years ahead of me...he would have made some MACTC races interesting, but, it's time to move up.

to the other guy: I like the idea of removing the distinction between pro and amateur, but the distinctions are a convenience for RD's

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How do you figure?

A convenience for the RD's? please explain.

I honestly believe there's no point in having the title "pro" in triathlon, for any reason. The competition would be the same regardless of what we call people.

qft

It simplifies the matter of figuring out who starts when in wave start races. Sending the fast people who are most likely to win money first keeps the race honest.

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It doesn't work like you think it does. Automatic upgrades are anything but automatic. They are at the discretion of the district upgrade coordinator (except for Cat1, which has to be approved by USAC), who does not have the time to monitor the progress of hundreds if not thousands of athletes on a week to week basis. If you think automatic upgrades keep sandbaggers out of amateur cycling., you haven't raced much.

Master's riders race against ex-pros every weekend. That's the way it should be. HTFU.

Congrats to Susan for making Worlds.

It also makes things like wtc's doping control program possible (testing the people who most likely stand to benefit financially from cheating). The pro distinction allows them to narrow the search for dopers significantly.

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Actually, no, the most "honest" raceis the one where everyone lines up and goes, having to deal with the same obstacles. Your version of "honest" puts the pros out front without having to deal with much of a scrum. There is no reason not to eliminate the "pro" distinction. SOMEONE will finish first, second, etc.

I agree, but if this were feasible then it would be done...

Wave starts aren't the most fair, but mass starts aren't the most safe, so there is obviously a tradeoff.

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You guys are most welcome in our country.

If you need a point of contact here in NZ - if we can do anything at all for your preps for Worlds (checking out accom etc) ...please contact me.

NZ is very excited an Olympic medalist - and her team - are coming to race here.

\

Yeah, that really makes the life of an RD that much easier. One thing I've learned from slowtwitch is to not make claims about stuff you know nothing about in order to sound more credible. You will get called out on it.

I think the word "sandbagger" gets thrown around way too much. There are so many circumstances and personal reasons why someone may be racing in a category that appears lower than their fitness/finishing time would dictate. I think stepping away from the sport and having a baby less than a year ago would certainly qualify - not to mention a myriad of other reasons she may have that isn't so obvious.

As Shovelhd said - just HTFU and get on with it!

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I'm confused. Are you telling me to htfu? Not sure how that's relevant. I feel like you either didn't read my post or are replying to someone else. I have no issue with Susan Williams racing ag nats, or amateurs not upgrading. Nor do I have a problem lining up next to Mark McCormack at Wells Ave a few times a year. The deeper the field, the more meaningful the race. If you took anything but that from my post, I suggest you reread it.

What I suggested was a system that was more relevant than Age Groups, which are fairly useless, and make for bad race dynamics (wave starts based on age not ability are unsafe to say the least).

I see the need for only two categories: Open and Masters. But in races where you've got thousands of athletes lining up, it makes sense to have some kind of distinction. Breaking the "open" division into ability levels makes a lot more sense than breaking it into age brackets.

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Twitter | Kancman | Blog

Don't be a douche just because you don't understand. I've worked very closely with two major triathlon production companies in NC, and put on a few smaller events myself so I have a pretty intimate appreciation of what goes on behind the scenes. I'm also generalizing to entire organizations such as WTC when I say "RD's" (I generally mean anyone involved in organizing the races), and did a pretty good job of justifying their reasons for differentiating between pro and amateurs above.

The truth is that there are plenty of reasons, and until you actually spend some time with RD's and begin to make decisions like these yourself you may not understand, but don't automatically assume that I don't.

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No. We agree. It was a general comment. The quote was to put some reality around USAC automatic upgrades.

See you at Wells Ave.

You see the same problem in motocross and I'm sure other sports. Two years after giving up your pro card you can race Loretta Lynn's, which is the main amateur national race. Most racers are unhappy that former pros can enter the premier amateur race in the country. You see former factory riders over 40 just dominating their class. Would be like Dave Scott racing against me. Amateur championships should be strictly for participants that have always been an amateur. As for any other race, bring it on, I would be happy to line up next to Dave Scott and compete against him in my age group.

"Amateur championships should be strictly for participants that have always been an amateur. As for any other race, bring it on, I would be happy to line up next to Dave Scott and compete against him in my age group."

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Kny is the RD of Savageman.....among its most notable overall winners is Susan Williams :-) I think he knows a few things about being an RD and perhaps even this topic we're discussing :-)

Former pro's should have a special wave.

i am in Emilio Desoto Age group, and Greg Welsh, i can't win even even on my best day

Please tell me this is a joke?