it depends. are you a [potentially] sub 9 hour athlete? i assume you're easily below 1:55 at oly distance?

To be honest, i'm not sure. I only really do sprint races so i'm not sure what my oly time would be.
i run mid 15s for 5000m and have similar bike splits in sprint races as people of who i know that went sub 9.
Obviously this is really vague and i might be miles removed from a time like that but i was just wondering what times people who achieved sub 9 set on shorter distances (5k for example or a 400m swim) and the workouts they did in their key training weeks.

Oops, something went wrong while editing my original message. Original question:

Hi everyone,

I usually focus on short course/draft legal racing. Since (in my country) all these races are canceled up until September i am considering to do my first full triathlon in September (assuming those won't get canceled as well). My main objective is obviously to just finish the thing and enjoy the experience but I'd like to perform to the best of my ability's as well. To get some inspiration for workouts i am curious what a typical training week looks like for the fop age groupers (sub 9 on a somewhat fast course) in the two months leading up to the race? Total hours per week, specific workouts, general advice everything is welcome!

Thanks in advance

I'll bite. Would you like to enjoy the experience or go sub 9? Those (in my own opinion) are very different things. Especially if you've only ever completed sprints. I slowly moved from sprints and olympics to 70.3 to full distance over years. In my own opitnion, going Sub 9 takes consistency and a deep base. It takes the ability to hammer long, psycologically draining sets and workouts and the ability to care for your body while doing so. I have only thought about quitting a race three times in all my years, all three came around mile 20 of the run on a full distance. You have to be mentally perpared for this... it is not a sprint.

In 'peak' weeks I'll be in 16-21 hours (this includes about 4-5 hours a week of cycle commute) so about 15-16 hours of 'training'. Lots of the time building bike base, were talking 5 hour turbo rides and building a solid FTP. Run workouts.... other than off the bike stuff long runs or sets of 800's at 6:00 pace ... say 20+.

I gave myself a full year of prep for my first full distance race (having had years of 70.3 and marathon work in the bag) and was fortunate to go sub 9. I repeated the feat the following summer with a short training block and relying on deep fitness due to a hernia surgery which curtailed winter training. Take a look at my race posts, they'll show a bit of the transition up to the full distance (going sub 9).

Not saying people (you) cant rock up and crush it (i hope you do) but a large amount of the jump you're looking to make takes years of volume with some smart and focused blocks built within that time to focus on technique/power/speed in swim/bike/run.

Build bike volume learn, to run quick on tired legs, and hope for some luck.

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Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Thanks for the reply!

Interesting stuff. i've run a lot of 110k weeks over the winter (69mpw i guess) and do the occasional 4 to 5 hour ride but obviously putting everything together in a great race is a whole different story, especially when the IM experience isn't there yet. I'll just see how it go's and learn from there for future races.

Go to Training Peaks and browse advanced full distance plans https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...thlon/full-distance/
There you will find "sample weeks" to give you an idea of how it looks like to train for a fast full distance performance

Going sub 9 for an athlete has nothing to do with x workout or program.

You have 10 athletes all go sub 9 and they have 10 different programs and coaches and then you have 10 athletes that got the exact same online program or a copied program for a coach and they go 9, 10, 11,12,13,14 etc.

Going sub 9 take power to wt strength, movement efficiency ( injury preventing and minimize energy over the distance) , proper race pacing and fueling. If you already have the engine and skills.

if you can go sub 1 hour for a sprint non draft you can go sub 9. if you have the above.
If you can go sub 1 hour for a sprint non draft you can't go sub 9. if you don't have the above.

I have gotten beat by a lot of guys in sprints and crushed them in Ironman. I have the above without the same engine as the do and they don't have the above but have the engine.

it comes down to a few other variables, mental focus and consistence.... but if you are a sub 60 min sprint triathlete you most likley have that already.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I don’t think sprint distance time really factors in here. In a sprint, the swim is fairly important because the race is so short and the swim could be 25% of your total time. Ironman, you could be a 1:10 swimmer and still crack 9 because you could be a stud on the bike and run. I think the biggest determining factors would be an open marathon, or half marathon time, and how strong you are on the bike.

nope it is not. if you can swim 750, bike 20 and run 5 km under 60, you have the pedigree to do sub 9. sure the ironman is different ratios but if you can't sub 60 a sprint you can't sub 9 an iron man. you will never find a guy that can sub nine an ironman but can't sub 60 a sprint.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I disagree with you. You could take a large man who was a stud swimmer as kid, who could swim 9 min, and hammer some bike watts on the bike and do the bike in 30 min, and run a 20 min 5k. This theoretical person could never go sub 9 without losing 20 lbs and years of running lots. Unless you planning on biking 4:30, you pretty much need to run 3:15 off the bike, which would mean being able to run a 2:50 open marathon if you wanna crack 9. And I think there are lots of people that could crack 60 min for a sprint that don’t have the running ability for that

I mentioned above yes some guys can go fast in a sprint lets say they do 1:08 but never do the right things for distance. So the race ends poorly 10:40 maybe.

But go find me a guy that has gone sub 9 hr for an Ironman ( properly measured) and cannot go sub 60 for a sprint. Once you find that guy get back to me.


As my point was sub 9 hr you need to already have the proper skill set and fitness to do sub 60 min sprint, but a sub 60 min sprint doesn't mean you have the right tools to come up with a sub 9 ironman.

So the poster on the thread sounds like he is sub 60 sprint. So I outlined what he would need to do be the sub 9 guy and not the guy that can sub 60 a sprint and never crack 10 on a Full.

Now if we wanted to be fun about it.

sprint race: 9 min swim/ 2 min T1 bike /30 min /2 min T2 / that leaves 17 min for a run. not 20 so that dudes time would be 1:03. he would not qualify for the discussion.

Now if he could do 9 +27 + 19 + 4 = 59 min he can therefore learn to do 49 min Ironman swim ( without even trying) bike 3.6 watts per kg for a 4:40 bike split or better, then add 6 min for T1 and T2 and he is at 5:35 to start the run and has 3:25. which if capably of a 19 min 5 km in a sprint tri a 3:25 is very possible. that is a 3:48 pace per km sprint vs 4:52 km at Ironman. over one extra min per KM on the run. COME ON SO EASY!!!

Enjoy your day

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

You make an interesting argument, though I don't know many non pure swimmers that would swim 9 min, having said that, you will still need a sub 30 or sub 20 to account for transitions. But I would say those are the exception, most folks that race a sprint swim in 10.5-12 min that pull off a sub 9, should have no issues breaking 60 in a sprint.

Yes this.

Lots of bike volume and some long good bricks.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I agree with you, but the OP just wanted to have a look to the weekly schedule of some random "sub 9 guy", not looking for the magic recipe to go sub 9; if I understood well

Thanks for the insights so far everyone! I can do a sub hour sprint (on a normal course) but sub 9 sounds like a whole different story.

Yes, correct.
i think i have a decent base on the bike and with mid 15min 5k i guess my run is also on the right track but i understand that putting everything together is a whole different story. Also the training is completely different. My bike training mainly consists of of cruising around at an easy pace and a weekly group ride with some fast cyclists, i have no idea what my ftp is to be honest so i was just wondering how some of the sub 9 guys structure their training so that i could get an idea on what a typical week looks like.

Some other thoughts on Sub-9 training in contrast to the comments you received so far:

https://www.samiinkinen.com/...waii-ironman-secrets

If you target one of the faster IM courses - Sub-9 can be achieved by 10-15 hours of trianing if you look at the people who are doing it - especially if you have the ability to do mid 15 5ks and sub-1 sprint.

As others have said here (and in other similar threads) and in my own opinion, that is an elusive thing to nail down. Even as an 'average' time... somepeople are simply able to swim/bike/run better than others or handle training loads differently. This is before course/weather/other (ie bike and equipment selections) which I beleive play a large roll in being able to get down to a sub 9 time. You need to be a master of all things training and equipment.

12 weeks before IM Barcelona - 13 hour average w/ low 7:40 and high 18 hours - race time 8:58
12 weeks before Roth - 11.5 hour average w/ low 5 (still getting back from hernia surgery) and high 16.25 - race time 8:57
12 week before Kona - 14 hour average w/ low of 5.5 (week recovery from Roth) and high of 18 - race time 9:51

Using Barcelona as a 'baseline' as I think overall I was well prepared and while the course would be considered fast as it was my first full distance I played it safe on the bike. I trained with less hours and a shorter block for Roth but was 'faster' than Barcelona, likely the course and nice weather on the bike helped get me to that time as I wasnt as fit. I was realy well trained and prepped for Kona but raced 'slowly' - experience with heat and course coditions being my limiter.

Again, you need to be in a position to handle multiple 14-18 hour weeks, and run tired. As been mentioned if you cant run a 3:15 marathon off the bike going sub 9 is likely not in the cards.

One of my 18 hour pre-Kona weeks

8.5 hours on the bike - (all my riding is indoors... so i do it by time.. not miles)
5.75 hours running - 46 miles
3.5 hours swimming - 14650 yards

A coach is best suited to help craft the proper (and personalized) plan to attack this, I know I would not have been able to get to where I have without mine.

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Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

i don't think that would be difficult at all.

i get what you're saying, but saying that these two things (sub 9hr, 1hr+) are not mutually exclusive is pretty narrow-minded.

It's a bit generic but Gordo Bryn outlined a couple of various weekly structures that he's used in the past in a Kona qualifying year, which would be pretty similar to your sub-9 quest.

https://alancouzens.com/...6/01/your-kona-week/

If I were you, I'd get a coach. I'd communicate to him how much hours/week I have to train, what my current/past volume is like, what race I'm targeting, and then a soft goal. I say soft because you might realize during training that your ftp won't be high enough for a 4:15 bike, or you might struggle with injury during the cycle. I know guys who did sub 9 on 12 hour avg weeks and other guys who averaged 17, doubling every day.

Guys who excel at sprints aren't normally the same guys who excel at IM. Clearly you have the vo2max to go fast, but who knows how long you can go at 88%.

I find the sub-8 goal and training plan much more effective than the sub-9...

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

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Starting on July 22nd last year, I posted every session I did leading up to IM Maryland on strava because my friends were curious about what I was doing. You can see all of the them here if you'd like to: https://www.strava.com/.../161311/training/log. I ended up doing 8:47.

As others have mentioned, there are a lot of ways to get there. I rarely do testing anymore, but I would guess leading into that race I could do a 5K in 17:xx and swim 400 yards in 4:45ish (not sure what that would translate to in meters, 5:10?), both of which are not super fast. I am pretty strong on the bike (340-350 watt FTP depending on the season) and use that to ride relatively easily but still pretty fast. That was enough for me to get the job done, but I've also been training relatively consistently for a decade. YMMV.

To get some inspiration for workouts i am curious what a typical training week looks like for the fop age groupers (sub 9 on a somewhat fast course) in the two months leading up to the race? Total hours per week, specific workouts, general advice everything is welcome!


What I suggest people do if they are looking this is first break things down and look at the time splits for the three legs.

For a 9:00 IM a reasonably well balanced athlete would be looking at splits of 1hr/5hrs/3hrs - with a bit of give and take on each leg for individual sport variation and of course for the bike and the run in particular the geography of each course.

Then think about the training, particularly for the swim and the bike, that you can do those times, not as absolute PB's, but in a way, that you are not killing yourself to achieve those times - it's all sub-maximal. So looking at the bike - you want to ride close to a 5:00hr bike split, but that's not an absolute - you will have the fatigue of the swim in you, and you will need to run strongly after this (read-on). Thus, you really need to be way fitter than just being able to ride 5:00 flat!

For the run I have always been a proponent of the large importance of the run leg in triathlons, particularly long course races like the IRONMAN. Why - this is where place performance is REALLY settled in most races! If you are taking this serious, if a KQ is a part of the discussion here, you can INCREASE substantially your chances, by running well and strong over the final 20km of the marathon. Why? EVERYONE else is dying. So literally the WHOLE of the day and the race will come down to this. How do you reach this point of the race, to run that final 20km to the absolute best of your ability on race day. If you are looking at 9:00 - you probably need to be thinking by extension - how do I run close to a 3:00 hr marathon and thus 7 min/mile pace??

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter