What have your times been in the past and how much do you run? This is my goal for my race Sunday. I've been using a generic plan that I have had good results with, but have been staying more consistent with my runs and striving to hit all my long runs and speed work this time around. I think you kind of need to have a solid base and be pretty close to meeting the goal, otherwise you may be shooting in the dark.

---

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

run 4x a week. this would be a PR, by far., ran a 60k a couple months back but at a very slow pace, but was comfortable the whole time. about 3 weeks ago ran 13 mi @ 7 :49 pace. i do some tempo stuff (one mile race pace, next mile recover)

You can find stuff all over the internet for free without buying a book. Jack Daniels is great. My main advice though would be to temper your expectations based on the info you've provided

don't mess around with a 3hr training plan... I prefer to use a 2:30 plan and that way if I miss I'm still under 3.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

@ Eric - i like that. can you send a regiment ?

I just copy all of Kipchoge's workouts and do them exactly like he does.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

He is playing with you :)) You will destroy yourself doing that. If you are hitting a 7:49 in a half, I think you are just to far from the mark to hit the type of intensities you would need for a sub 3. You would need to shave a minute per mile and then double the distance. . . I'm not at all saying you aren't capable of achieving this, but I think you probably need more time and perhaps a more realistic approach would be to look at something like a 3:15ish for New York?

I know the feeling of wanting to BQ. I missed it by 30 seconds last year, but realistically still wouldnt have gotten in. The race isn't going anywhere so you have time on your side. Just don't rush into it and get hurt.

---

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

to be fair, the 7:49 half was a very comfortable run. do i think i could have gone sub 7 ? No, but i have plenty of time like you said.

check this guys channel out. He is big on longer weekly mileage, but he does a good job of laying out the types of workouts and mileage to expect. There are some others on his channel discussing a sub 3 as well.

---

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

I've done hal higdon marathon advanced 1 plan substituting 22, 23, and 24 mile tempo runs instead of the 10-20's. I would agree with the others who have said your half pace is probably not where you would need to be for sub 3. When I've gone under 3, I was comfortably running 1:20 halves. I think half marathon x2 plus 10 minutes is the general rule of thumb. Some folks are really gifted however and can make it work. Best of Luck.

I agree - I've just done a 1:27 half, and my aim is sub 3:10 at the end of October in a marathon.

There is a huge difference between the two distances. Sub 3 Mara means running a 1:29 HM and feeling warmed up. No way for me.

The OP would be better off with 3:20 or so as a target - if they feel good after 10 miles, put the afterburners on.

What is your current marathon PR? How many miles a week do you run? There isn't anything special about a sub-3 marathon that someone trying to go sub-3:15, or 3:30, or even 4:00 is going to be doing differently.

i run 20-30 miles per week. only marathon i ran was in my Ironman last Oct.

ran 20 miles a few weeks back at 8:05 pace; casual, easy jog. low effort

I'd get yourself down to a 1:25 half first. That gets you in the ballpark. You at least need to get to a 1:30 (6:50 pace), then imagine doubling that effort....

Since you're not getting very serious replies.

I'm shooting for sub 3 in Boston in a few weeks. I have been averaging about 60mpw, have done 6x20 milers alternating between slow and steady at 7:20, or doing fast finish with last 5 miles around 6:25. MAF all day pace is around 7:30.

PR is 3:03 when doing about 50mpw and really struggled on the last 3 miles.

Good luck in your endeavor, as you have your work cut out for you. I have gone sub-3 six times, and my other two marathons were under 3:05. For all of them, running a 1:30 half was almost a conversational pace. Seriously, 6:40 per mile has to feel like cruising, especially for the first 15 miles.

As you move forward with your training, remember that gradual increases in volume and intensity and recovery are key. You are probably going to have to significantly improve your top-end speed to get your marathon pace where it needs to be. One thing you can do is a Yasso 800s workout at goal marathon pace just to see how you do. That will at least give you an idea of where you are. If you can’t do 2 x 800 on 3 minutes per 800, you may want to reconsider your timeline. If you can do 10, then you may be able to prove the doubters wrong. The Yasso workout isn’t the same as running a marathon, but it will at least give you an indication of where you stand without breaking you.

Good luck.

---

https://www.endurancelab.fit
https://www.teamodz.com
https://discuss.endurancelab.fit

You are looking to run faster than 6:52/mi for 3 hours.

I need to be blunt here and say I don't think you will be able to get there by this November. You can't just start training at the paces and volumes needed to support a sub-3 run. It's not that I don't think it's possible ever, because any reasonably fit younger male should be able to get there if that is a personal goal (I am guessing here that you are male, and based on your screen name were born in 1984).

Running a marathon well isn't about any one workout, any one long run, or any particular training philosophy. Doing it well has more to do with the thousands of miles you run in training, building your durability, building your speed. All gradually. If you just picked up a plan that dictated the paces and volumes needed to support a sub-3 run, from where you are now, is going to likely get you injured before you get near the end of the plan.

Since I was attempting to provide some serious replies I'll add here that I, too, am going for a sub-3 at Boston in a few weeks.

My PR is 2:59 and I ran that off a season of Ironman training 15+ hours a week but only 40-50 miles a week of running near the end for the marathon specific build. My long runs were all done either "just long" (20-22 miles) at 6:55-7:05 pace, and some that weren't as long (16-18 miles) but were done as semi-tempo runs where the main portion of the run was done at 7:20ish or so, but with stuff like 3x20:00 tempos at 6:15-6:30 pace.

The last time I ran Boston I was going for a sub-3 (this was before I set the 2:59 PR) and at the time my PR was 3:04. I was totally on pace for the sub-3 until I saw the sign that says "Welcome to Newton" and everything went to hell. Finished at 3:10. Boo. Turns out running for 16 miles slightly downhill destroys your ability to absorb the 4 hills in Newton, which in turn wreck you for the last 5 miles of downhill running into Boston.

You have a ton of time between now and November. I think sub 3 would be a great goal if you start today. I also think your smaller goals as you progress to race day should be:
Reach 50 miles/week
Be able to do a 2-3 50 mile weeks back to back (this means that you don't feel trashed after you hit 50 miles a week and have to drop back down to 40 or 30 to recover).
Get up to running 6-7 days a week (consistency is key)
Run a half marathon in training at race pace. (this means on non-tapered, tired legs)

Since you've never run an open marathon I think you need some longer runs in the 18-20 mile range so you know how your legs are going to feel come "wall" time. This will also help with nutrition as well since it probably won't be the same as your IM nutrition.

This is kinda what I did to get my sub 3 last year. This may not work for you. I know I also ran a pretty fast 10k in training and some other tempo type workouts but I think you worry about them later. Key will be to get consistent mileage in week in and week out and then start adding in tempo.

Not sure why the yasso thing keeps coming up. Marathons are about endurance, aren't they? I can nail 10x800 on 30 sec. rest on <2:50, I can run a 1:24 half mary but I know that if I toed the line at a marathon, I'd crumble to a 3:30+ because I simply don't run enough. I am built for speed and sure, if I focused on running purely and built up to 50 miles per week, maybe i'd get close to or just under 3 but nowhere near what my yassos would tell me. I do the workout because I love running 800s and its great speed work for half training, not caring what it is 'supposed' to mean for anything else.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

you're negative. 2:30 is a better goal.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

sub 3 is easy. the hard part is doing it without getting injured.

be smart. dedicate 2-3 years of your life to it. this year is to build a strong base. make yoga, and strength training part of your routine. get your weekly miles up to 50 by the end of the year. this should be comfortable.

year 2 build a bit more speed, and a bit more volume. you should average 45-50 for the year and have peak weeks of 55.

year 3 is your sub 3 year. peak weeks of 65-70, average of 60.

of course, keep up with yoga, strength training, some swimming and cycling.

fail, and stick with triathlons.

This is a good summary

Let's make that 3 of us going to <3 at Boston. Perhaps we should have a ST party in the wave 1 coral.

In my goal for <3, I've been putting in 50+ miles every week in 2019, about half of which are 60+ and plan to peak around 70-75 miles this week and next week. Each week includes a long slow run, a longish tempo w/ 8-10 mi at about 6:40/mi and another speed workout in the 10k (~6/mi) to HM pace (6:20/mi). For reference my current PRs are 1:24 HM last fall coming off of 70.3 training with 30-40 mi/wk running and a 3:04 marathon last spring with weekly mileage in the 40-50 range. My first real attempt a marathon was a 3:25 w/ a HM PR of 1:40 at the time.

Back to the topic at hand for the OP, I'll also echo that it's likely a goal too far for this year, but possibly not for next year. For you to get there, I'd recommend lots of running frequency (6-7 times a week), building your sustained weekly mileage up to the 40 mi/wk range for this year before you're into your peak marathon build for NYC. Seems a 3:15-3:20 should be pretty reasonable goal for this time around. As others have said, it's all about long-term consistency in running and it takes time to get there.