Hmmm... Never heard of that.

My massage therapist has me stretch against tension- she stretches my leg (hamstring) and has me resist it. It seems to work. It sounds similar but it is sustained.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Yeah, massage therapists are cool. Think I can get one to move in? Think my wife would go for it? ;)

I *think* the idea behind the two second stretch is that you release the stretch before the stretch reflex (?) is engaged. I'm not sure how valid the concept is, or how one is supposed to apply it.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I've also found that stretching in ahot tube is easier and I get a better stretch with (seemingly) reduced chance of injury.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Now that is an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that, it makes a lot of sense. And I actually have a hot tub! Excellent, thanks.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

That's ballistic stretching. There are many different ways to stretch. Seems like it doesn't matter which one you chose, at least according to
http://www.uniklinik-saarland.de/med_fak/sport-praev/Publikationen/Publikationen/Schoenthaler_Effects/Schoenthaler_Effects.html

Naturally, there's literature saying otherwise, so ....

It's called isometric stretching. I've also read it, or something very similar, referred to as PNF, forget what the acronym stands for. According to Thomas Kurtz, it's the most effective kind and one of the kind he includes in his excellent book, Stretching Scientifically. You can find articles, etc... at www.stadion.com. One of the nice benefits of this kind of stretching is that it builds strength along with flexibility. Technically, the flexibility comes as a byproduct of the strength.

A couple of caveats from Kurtz related to isometrics.

- Don't do them in the mornings. It can be pretty tough on the muscles and will take away from your other workouts during the day.

- Only do them at the end of a workout. Same reason as above.

- Only do one muscle group during a workout. So, do side split OR front split, but not both.

- 4 times a week is a good number

Have fun.

Maybe... if he's hot enough ;)

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
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I've been stretching nearly every day for 25 yrs. Unless the physiologists are now telling us different I was always under the impression that the most effective way to stretch was to hold the position for about 10 seconds. Do the stretch three times. That's the way I've always done it because I remember reading years ago that the shorter ballistic stretching was not as effective.

CG, that's how I've always stretched, too- when I do stretch, which isn't nearly as often as I should.

However. . .seems like recently, as in the past few years, they've come out with a whole lotta "new and improved" ways to stretch. I don't know if it makes any difference or not, or if it only really matters that you stretch some way consistently. I do think some methods have a high probability of causing injury and should be avoided.

The technique I'm asking about isn't ballistic stretching- I don't think it calls for the bouncing, just a shortly held stretch.

It's also not PNF, in that I don't think it calls for contracting the opposing muscle group.

Related question, how often does everyone here stretch, and for how long? How much of your training time is devoted to stretching?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I believe what you are referring to is Active Isolated Stretching (AIS). I remember reading something about this, I think, in Triathlete about 5 or 6 years ago. Never seemed to really catch on. From my understanding, and I admittedly don't know a lot about AIS, it's not a ballistic stretch at all. It's a stretch that his held for a short time, but it does not involve bouncing. It relies on activating the antagonist muscle group, for example when stretching the hamstrings you would contract the quads at the same time. Check out http://www.stretchingusa.com/aboutAIS.cfm for more info.

FWIW, stretching remains rather controversial. I have heard rumblings about another study published recently showing no significant benefit from stretching as far as injury prevention is concerned. I have not seen the study, so can't speak to the validity of it. As a physical therapist I will continue to recommend/prescribe stretching for my patients, it just makes sense.

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Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Oh yeah, FYI, PNF stands for...get ready for this one

Proprioceptive Neuromuscular Facilitation.



I forgot to mention, that while I often prescribe stretching, I also often skip stretching during my training. I am one of my worst patients.

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Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

With regards to stretching helping prevent injury. . .Yeah, that's one of those things I've always just accepted as being true, but I really don't have any real reason to believe it.

On the other hand, it is generally accepted that stretching will increase your range of motion, right? I like being able to touch my toes. If this parts controversial, then I'm just going to quit stretching- it's a pain.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Whew, mouthful. Thanks for the clarification :)

That's awesome! I think, though, it depends on why physiologists you've been listening to. Kurtz refers a lot to Eastern European researchers and gymnastics coaches. They've known about this for a long time. I'm sure your stretching works for you, but this method has achieved great results for many people. It's remarkable how often even experts don't know about certain aspects of effective training. I take quite a bit of ballet these days and of the many professional teachers I've had, only one was aware of this kind of stretching and of the proper, from a physiological point of view, sequence of workout/stretching. Many professionals have been training and stretching since they were children and never thought of doing it any other way. In fact, during my few years of Yoga, I never really came across the notion of isometric stretching either, despite how effective it is.

I think it's been discussed already, but it needs clarifying that this has nothing to do with ballistic stretching. Quoting Kutz's site: "Ballistic movements are performed at maximum speed and with no possibility of adjusting or correcting the movement once it started" (Tidow, G. 1990. Aspects of strength training in athletics. New Studies in Athletics vol. 5, number 1 [March]). This is close to, but still not quite the same, as dynamic stretching, like slow leg swings.

In 1980 I puchased Bob Anderson's book "Stretching". It's still in print today and has become the bible about stretching. Read the book and started stretching and haven't stopped. I may not be fast, but I've got exceptionally good flexibility for a 52 yr. old.

I'm really glad it works for you.

AIS as someone else pointed out. One of the major proponents of it is a coach/therapist for the Irish Olympic Teams, mainly track I think. He worked with US sprinters also at one time.

The main point I can remember was it was used in conjunction with a warm-up process lasting over 45 minutes. This was used mostly for sprinters, but could have been applied to anyone I assume.

I tried it for a while, but didn't notice more flexibilty or any obvious benefit.

I just got out of Physical Therpay, and they have me holding for 30sec, 3 sets. They offered better methods of strectching, not different hold times.

Before track workouts I do a dynamic warm-up designed by the Canadian National Track Coach. Brent MacFarlane. It's really good. I had my cross-country runners begin doing it instead of laying around doing static stretching before workouts. We've had success with that. I think it aids in warm-up, flexibility, and injury prevention in more stressful workouts. Two days a week we'd build in plyometrics at the end of the warm-up.

Vitus, I think hoolidan is correct in his belief that it's AIS. I think the guy, Aaron Mattes lives and teaches it in Sarasota,FL. Their were a bunch of his minions at the Tampa Marathon doing pre/post race stretching. IMO it works as well or better than other techniques as my wife got a pre race stretch and finished her first marathon. After not running more than 5mi for the last 4-5wks because of piriformis syn. she got all stretched out and decided to try it. I'm sure some of the central florida athletes have had experience with these folks.

I recently completed certification as a USATF level one coach. The current USATF educational stance on stretching is this:

Stretching cold, ie without actively warming up is at best a push. Studies have shown that at best this provides NO BENEFIT and in fact actually may cause injury.

Active stretching is best. i.e. light warmup jog slowly building in intensity. Various drill should be used to facilitate active stretching, ie, high knees, butt kicks, skips, etc.

The isometric stretching as mentioned is excellent once you are warmed up. Never let your partner/masseuse apply pressure, i.e if lying on your back to stretch hamstrings, don't let them push your leg back. Let them hold it in the positon to which you can bring it back. Hold 10 seconds and then you push against their static resistance for 5-10 seconds. The result should be that you can now bring your leg back further. Repeat.



Power = Force x distance / unit time.

The larger the range of motion you can work your muscle through the greater the potential power. As stretching increases range of motion it will help increase power. The max power is produced by exerting the greatest force over the greatest distance in the shortest amount of time.

USATF is very smart in covering basic physics in their curriculum to help keep you focused on why each piece of training is important.



Triyoda

triyoda.com

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"When I first had the opportunity to compete in triathlon, it was the chicks and their skimpy race clothing that drew me in. Everyone was so welcoming and the lifestyle so obviously narcissistic. I fed off of that vain energy. To me it is what the sport is all about."

Just a little add on for people doing static (holding a stretch) stretching. This comes from a seminar on basic physiology and stretching for Martial artists that I attended at a convention several years ago. When doing static stretches, how long you hold a strech is important, but just a little longer may do no good at all. For instances the study cited (no I don't remeber anything about the study) that holding a stretch for 2 min had no greater effect than one minute, but at three minutes the was a measurable improvement. I don't remember much else from the seminar but did retain the "chart" of times to hold.

15 sec

30 sec

1 min

3 min

5 min

9 min

Don't know if it actually is correct. But I have used it as a guideline for stretching in my martial arts classes and have had good results.

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

I have the article from triathlete mag that Hollidan refered to. It has explanations and pictures. I can fax it to you if you'd like.