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Strava Segments now Paywalled
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https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...or-all-and-more.html

Interesting move. Either they misunderstand one of the core features of their platform or they were surprisingly close to not being able to continue as a service. Disappointing either way, wonder how this will play out...
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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That seems like an unreal bad decision. Pretty much the only reason I, and many other people I know, use strava is for segments. No one who pays for trainingpeaks or a coach is going to pay for TP in addition to Strava. And then this kills the fun for a lot of people in my local cycling club for instance, who have been doing a Segment of the Week challenge. Sure, one person who pays can still see everything but it's way less fun to not immediately see your results and where you stack up. They've probably done the math and know that 10% more paying customers easily offsets 30% of their free customer base never using it again or something like that, but really disappointing to see.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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That’s a bummer. I’m a paid subscriber and like the additional features - not sure if this will help Strava in the long term (or short term if they fold).

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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Cue the free alternative to Strava in 3..2..1..

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe I'm special, but I can still see the whole leaderboard on my KOMs and use the route builder. I also don't pay for Strava.

Have these changes not been made yet?

Strava
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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Why can't they integrate ads? View an ad before viewing an area of the site or something. Banner ads. I dunno.

It's just "not enough" to be worth paying for. I love segments and route builder. But I use Google Earth to check them out anyway. Their training add on is just that, a little cheapo add on not worth much.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Ads for local businesses on the routes... that would be an awesome feature and I wouldn't be upset that it was an ad. hah.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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I can kind of understand the Route Builder, but not the leader boards. That's an easy "in" to get people to start using your service and they may eventually end up paying. I could see weather analysis, leader board predictions, etc. being a much more "premium" feature if they were to implement those. I could see charging for "basics" like leader boards if it was $1/month, but not the normal Summit membership fee.

"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com
Last edited by: allenpg: May 18, 20 10:58
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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So basically they are saying: "Hey free loaders! no more segments for you to use as an alternative to racing this race-less summer without paying us. I don't care if you lost your job, we need your money!"

Not sure this works out well for them.

I think I saw Garmin had some segment ability with their app, not that I paid much attention to it but can anyone tell me what would stop TrainingPeaks from adding a segment capability to their app? Aside from worker capacity.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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I was wondering what the heck was going on...that sucks. Won't be buying premium anytime soon.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
I think I saw Garmin had some segment ability with their app, not that I paid much attention to it but can anyone tell me what would stop TrainingPeaks from adding a segment capability to their app?
Garmin still has segments. The key to success is a broad user base who both create and ride segments. There is probably not much stopping anyone with GPS activity data from creating segments in their, but the value is driven by an active user base.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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Why does Strava Continue to make decisions away from their core function? It is inherently a social network for endurance athletes. Not much more. So I join the sponsored challenges, is that not enough to keep segment leaderboards? Do we know how many users they're hemorrhaging? I can only surmise that people are quitting the platform as both non paying users and paying users if they're making this many cuts to what are "core features" of the platform.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
Ads for local businesses on the routes... that would be an awesome feature and I wouldn't be upset that it was an ad. hah.

Think even broader: They have a massive data set that could be sold to race directors that would benefit both races and racers:

Some use cases:
1) Advertise a race to all runners in a 30 minute drive
2) Last minute: advertise a marathon in 4 weeks to runners who are averaging more than 35mpw and don't have a race on their calendar
3) Wait, Strava doesn't have a race cal you say? Fix that, then add in suggested 'opening races' that sponsors could pay to be considered for.
4) Strava already tracks shoe data... Work with advertisers to create sponsored posts congratulating you on your 500mi, then offering 10% off a pair of shoes which is the updated version of the ones you've been using
5) Content marketing. They have what, 50m users, a huge number of which can't all be experts? Create fantastic free knowledge resources with affiliate links. Or, alternatively, send out free training plans at the appropriate times automatically ("Congrats on your first 5k! Here's how to get to 10k!") and include access to paid content (higher level training plans, group coaching sessions, etc) at the same time.
6) Really properly build out scheduling, planning, and analysis tools, and then leverage their community for accountability and social aspects. You just nailed ten planned workouts in a row? Congrats, Strava understood that and made a post about it; your friends can click on the post, see your progress over the last 8 weeks, and Kudos you for the 10 workouts.

And really, I'm just spitballing here. I'm not a sports marketer. It just really seems like Strava is taking the "lashings will continue until morale improves" approach, while not being apparently much different than they were for me in like... 2010? I pay much more than Strava costs for membership to things that actually give me tangible benefits, but I've just never been super clear on what Strava gets me. Live Segments on my Wahoo are neat, but I'm not paying $60 just for that. RideWithGPS already handles my mapping...

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [allenpg] [ In reply to ]
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allenpg wrote:
I can kind of understand the Route Builder, but not the leader boards. That's an easy "in" to get people to start using your service and they may eventually end up paying. I could see weather analysis, leader board predictions, etc. being a much more "premium" feature if they were to implement those. I could see charging for "basics" like leader boards if it was $1/month, but not the normal Summit membership fee.

There's a huge math disconnect with Strava on their fees versus potential.

If you only have X subscribers at $10/month but could have 100X subscribers at $1/month..........that's 10x the money coming in. That's an exaggeration, but you get my drift.

They need to make it a menu:
$1/mo for routebuilder, segments, basics
$5/mo for all that plus their super limited exercise tracking stuff

It makes it even more amazing to me that Zwift is only what it costs per month for what it is. It's apples to oranges, but damn.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [allenpg] [ In reply to ]
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allenpg wrote:
I can kind of understand the Route Builder, but not the leader boards.

According to some accounts "analyze" is also no longer free, and I will miss that: https://www.bikeradar.com/...routes-subscription/

"Free users will no longer be able to view full segment leaderboards, analyze efforts, create routes or view route recommendations."

To be fair the biking free version has been quite full featured for many years. They will get a lot more revenue from this move in the short term, but I suspect it will leave the door open to other free apps taking over.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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They sort of tried that in 2018, but I think their pricing and packaging was still misaligned. They had three "packs" at $3/month each. Or, you could get everything for $8/month. Ultimately, the abandoned that and rolled back to a single product and priced it at $5/month.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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I honestly wondered why it took them so long for them to paywall the segments. As fun as they are, it's one of the most (if only) unique features specific to Strava, in that they have robust and well utilized segments specific to their platform.

The rest of the reporting you can get on multiple other platforms (GPS, power metrics, analysis, etc.) which are totally free (like GoldenCheetah) so I was wondering why they weren't making people pay for this unique feature.

I don't rely on Strava, but I did enjoy checking up on how my ride segments compared with my prior self in prior years. That's literally the only thing I used it for.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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I guess I'm not as up in arms about it as others are. It costs money for Strava to keep itself going. A boat load of free users are not necessarily going to support that. So you can either get people to pay for some of the more desirable parts of Strava (route builder and full access to all leaderboard info) or you can sell add space (i.e. slowtwitch or youtube) or you can be unscrupulous about how you sell data (i.e. Facebook). No matter which of the three Strava decided to chose people were going to bitch and moan about it because they want lots of neat stuff and they want it for free with no strings attached.

At $5 a month it's pretty damn cheap compared to everything else in our sport - not much more than the monthly subscription to slowtwitch. Yeah, I get things start to add up when you've got all kind of monthly fees from different services. So you just have to choose what you want. A new team kit each year vs every couple years. Tires which roll 3 watts faster than other cheaper tires tires. Gels for every ride instead of bananas. Netflix/Hulu vs watching free stuff on youtube with adds. Training peaks vs golden cheetah. Amazon prime vs just waiting an extra couple of days (or just not supporting an evil corporation). If you do one less 70.3 this coming year the race fee alone you could pay for 5-6 years of Strava.

I personally like live segments, it helps me push my efforts when I'm doing outside training. I’ve started using route builder more and more lately as it is a bit easier to use than google maps (just wish there was a way in it to tell if a segment was dirt or pavement). And I can probably save the money for it by not driving to work a few days a month or by eating out with my family 1-2 less a year.

As an aside, I would pay for a super premium membership that let me "fix" all the segments in the area I live. Too many duplicate segments with slightly different starting or ending points. Too many hill-climb segments that end after you start to descent on the other side. Too many segments that end just after a stop sign or light. And not every 100 feet of a bike path needs to have it's own segment. This all starts to litter the segment explorer and make it hard to find good or competitive segments.

Matt
Last edited by: Chemist: May 18, 20 12:11
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist wrote:
As an aside, I would pay for a super premium membership that let me "fix" all the segments in the area I live. Too many duplicate segments with slightly different starting or ending points. Too many hill-climb segments that end after you start to descent on the other side. Too many segments that end just after a stop sign or light. And not every 100 feet of a bike path needs to have it's own segment. This all starts to litter the segment explorer and make it hard to find good or competitive segments.

I'd pay if they fixed that. That's some BS you now have to pay for it but segment explorer is a cluster.

Also, sure hope on route builder they fixed that crap where for a bike ride it wants to randomly use all the stupid sidewalks and stuff and won't use other stuff that's legit. I'd hate to be paying and have the problems I've had with route builder.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
And then this kills the fun for a lot of people in my local cycling club for instance, who have been doing a Segment of the Week challenge. Sure, one person who pays can still see everything but it's way less fun to not immediately see your results and where you stack up. They've probably done the math and know that 10% more paying customers easily offsets 30% of their free customer base never using it again or something like that, but really disappointing to see.
How much 'fun' could it be if they're not willing to pay the equivalent of a cup of coffee per month?
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist wrote:
No matter which of the three Strava decided to chose people were going to bitch and moan about it because they want lots of neat stuff and they want it for free with no strings attached.


For me, the rub is: it seems like they just don't offer that much tangible value, and are basically asking me to just finance their continued lack of innovation. The Strava forums have been rife with major and basic bugs that have gone unfixed for years. It's a running joke over there that it's nearly a waste of keystrokes to feature request.

Put another way: I happily pay something like $150 / year for TrainerRoad, I recently started somewhat happily paying for Zwift, and we all pay for other subscriptions at points in our lives. The thing is, I just don't know what Strava really offers me. The closest I've come to paying for it would be the Live Segments. I'd also consider paying for really good mapping but I haven't gotten their route exports to work on my Wahoo (I think that's a Wahoo thing, not a Strava thing to be fair.) I just don't feel compelled to toss $60 their way so that I can see that my friends did their daily run workout. I'm not going to just outright quit Strava because my data automatically pushes there anyway, so it's zero investment on my end, but I don't really feel like I'm getting that much in return. If they want to implement some features that I see will actually benefit me, I'll happily pay.
And lastly, maybe I'm just not in a high enough income bracket, but I've never understood the "It's only $XX!" argument. We all make value determinations. Anyone who thinks $60 is a throwaway amount can throw it my way, if you want.

EDIT: And actually, to clarify, I'm not even upset at Strava per se. They are a company and they need to earn money, perfectly fine. I think I have a more general frustration in that I want them to succeed, and it seems like they just keep missing the mark on how to find a sustainable business model. In a way, I almost want them to convince me to pay. I happily would, and a massively successful Strava benefits us all, in some small way, I bet. But you're right though Matt, I don't pay now and my life isn't really changing with this change, so it's not really a huge deal. I guess I just want to see them do a great job and I feel like this isn't it.

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.
Last edited by: justinhorne: May 18, 20 12:35
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [justinhorne] [ In reply to ]
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justinhorne wrote:
cloy wrote:
Ads for local businesses on the routes... that would be an awesome feature and I wouldn't be upset that it was an ad. hah.


Think even broader: They have a massive data set that could be sold to race directors that would benefit both races and racers:

Some use cases:

I completely agree with the approach. This is how the other 'surveillance capitalism' companies build their businesses. Data can be sold.

But it only works if you have scale, unfortunately. Race directors and races are pocket change comparing with markets like clothing, cosmetics, alcohol available for Facebook/Google.

Also, workout data is not something that really can be monetized. Facebook/Google are collecting so much personal data from various sources, that they're capable not only to predict emotions, but even steer people towards desired outcomes. For example guess that you're depressed and show you more bourbon ads. Imagine conversion on this one!

What can Strava offer that's similar? The future is bleak, I'm afraid.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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gmh39 wrote:
Maybe I'm special, but I can still see the whole leaderboard on my KOMs and use the route builder. I also don't pay for Strava.

Have these changes not been made yet?

Same. I just checked everything and it works.

I don't pay anything.
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [carbenfire] [ In reply to ]
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Strava's always been peculiar to me - The paid-for features aren't worth any money at all. The free features were always worth money. However, given the world, there's no way I'm going to start paying any time soon - I'll just do without. It's not going to be a fast year anyway, so not many PB*s for me.

As far as core functionality, though. They're a business... Their primary core function is to make money. Everything else is way down the priority list. I'm not surprised it got to this if they're not making money.

And finally, if they see themselves as a social network for athletes, they've got a long way to go before I'll take them seriously as that. Can I DM my connections?

Cheers!

PB is Canadian-speak for PR.

Munq
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Re: Strava Segments now Paywalled [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist wrote:
or you can be unscrupulous about how you sell data (i.e. Facebook).

Or you can be scrupulous about how you sell data. Facebook would probably still be profitable without their privacy "mishaps."
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