I'm 6ft with the normal bench

Scott - These are very interesting observations, and clearly you must have spent a lot of time on the Vasa trainer. Your comments are why you don't hear top swimmers saying that they won their gold due to all the time they spent on the Vasa, or in the weight room for that matter. To be a better, faster swimmer, you have to swim harder, longer, etc. The Vasa may be an aid to swimming faster, but still the majority of your swim training time should be in the pool:)

JOOC, if you do the Vasa with almost straight arms, or with some other "cheating", can you go faster on the trainer than in the pool???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Hi, well after several months of thinking about it I pulled the trigger last week. First thing was the speed at which Vasa got the Erg out the door and to me. I'm in the UK and ordered on-line on the Monday and had it set up in my home gym on Thursday!

So Im not the strongest swimmer (30 min 1500) so bought it to really work on technique and strength. My first attempt lasted all of 4 minutes and I was blown! Following the video and instructions for the early catch and high elbow really showed my lack of technique. I tend to swim with a straight arm pull so getting used to a high elbow will take some time. What is interesting is the difference in watts that different strokes produce and the high elbow being the most powerful.

Early days for me so I'm building by a few minutes a couple of times a day and I couldn't do that if I was only going to the pool. There is no way I could slow down my stoke where I can ingrain new technique so easily in the pool. I agree with others its no substitute and true you don't get the roll you get in the pool. As for the recovery stroke I agree you don't get a true like for like but I have found that you can get close. I have done a few timed sessions in the pool and so will see what the effect of a month or two on the Vasa makes. My shoulders tell me that something is happening!!

Good luck

I'm still awaiting mine (dang - should arrive imminently!) but this is the reality for my pool training:

I realistically need 5 days per week of swimming at least a minimum of 45 min per session to improve. preferably 1hr each session average. I think that's probably not atypical. It's not much swimming at all in terms of volume.

However, also reality for me that total driving and prep time for a round trip to the pool is 45 minutes for the pool with 3 measly lanes with inevitable crappy circle swim with beginners, or 60 minutes total round trip for the better pool that still has at least a 50% chance of a crappy circle swim.

So if I want to get a decent 5 days of working out, that's 4-5 HOURS of travel/prep time total just for swimming. Add on the 4-5 hours of swimming pool time and that's 8-10 hours of total time. I train 12-15hrs per week, which I feel is a pretty respectable amount, so the swimming alone would consume nearly 75% of my training time, and I'm not even counting logistics, which are nearly impossible as the times available for lap swim are limited at the 3 different YMCAs I can go to. And the saddest part, is that that would be for SMALL improvement - I know from experience that I should be spending 9-10 hrs of SWIM time and not travel time, to get significant (not even that much, talking 5-10sec/100 over 1000) improvement. I know this is the same lame-sounding argument that Endurance Nation has put up that gets inevitable flamewars here, but as much as I've tried to deny it for the past 3 years, it's absolutely true for me as a multisport athlete. I've spent the past 3 years trying to 'disprove' it for myself by swimming harder/shorter in the pool, going at lunch to minimize out-of-work hours, trying literally every single lap swim hour to find the one with least people, but my conclusion - there is NO substitute for training volume at my low level of swimming. It's been true for me on the run/bike and I'm fooling myself to think it's different on the swim. We'll see if this Vasa experiment works or not, but I'm betting it will, just because I anticipate at least a 50% volume increase in total swim training time with it, and a 100% increase on swim-heavier weeks.

I honestly don't know how you swim buffs find the time to run and bike while putting up 5-7 days of serious poolwork per week without training for 20 hours per week. Either that or you guys have amazingly good pool access with ample lap lanes where you never need to circle with other swimmers and great hours that happen to match up with yours.

You are going to love the VASA Erg. If I take a significant amount of time off from using the Erg, I become slower in the pool. A few weeks of training 3-4 times a week for 20-30 minutes per session on the Erg while focusing on strength (I do most of my Erg with a high damper setting) is enough to bring my swim times back to my norm.

I've always been able to live within a 15 min drive of the pool and I actually like circle swimming regardless of the other swimmers' speeds, just sprint to pass them:) Also, I tend to do most of my training in one big workout, e.g. start swimming after work at 5 pm, then ride spin bike, then run, then stretch and shower and go home around 9:30 pm. On weekends, same except start around 10 am, e.g. allowing some extra sleep. It helps that I'm single with no dependents except my dogs:)

In any case, I applaud your decision to use the Vasa as a supplement and I sincerely hope that it helps you improve your swimming. Be sure to report back on your experience with it!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Thx for the input & encouragement, ericmulk. Will report back.

I wish I could do those mega compacted training days again. Alas, wife & kids do really put a cramp on the training lifestyle =)

Getting the swim after work is a good timesaver. Alas, that's when all the swim lessons and kids swim teams practice round here. I even tried combining the swim with the to-work AM swim, but the circle swim is really bad then. I still do it now, but it's killing my improvement as I'm constantly waiting up for people who don't yield at the wall. (I'm a real nice guy in the pool, but I just wanna strangle those rookie breast-strokers who somehow thinks its a good idea to jump into a 5-person in 25yd lap circle swim when they're going 2:30/100....argh.)

I also wish you could get on one and report how much wattage you could put up. I saw on the 'stretchcordz' thread that you had no problems with the heaviest cord. While I haven't used that particular brand, I have other similar bands, and I know that I'd probably only be able to barely do 5 reps of any heavy stretch cord in that swim motion -it's friggin' hard! (Ironically, I'm pretty strong at the normal weight training motions including lat pulldowns from my days lifting a lot of weights.)

Runner 66,
Sent u a pm in the 24 hrs. You have an buyer in me for your vasa

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age is just a number after your name

I bought a Vasa in the late 90's, then moved to the Erg around 2005. My decision was based on the same issues you discuss; actual training time versus the total time spent getting to/from the pool, not to mention issues with pool hours/closures.

I have found that I always swim faster after using the Vasa, compared to training in the pool. That was true using the original Vasa and the pulley attachment, and it has also been true using the Erg.

I now only swim when I race. I prefer to get in 3-5 pool swims in the 1-2 weeks prior to a race, just to "get the feel for the water", but it is optional.

If I had unlimited time, I would prefer to swim in open water. Given the time constraints, my measured results show I swim faster in the water when training on the Vasa, as opposed to (less actual workout time) training in the pool.

I think too many people here get hung up on "its is not actually swimming in water" to realize that more volume, on something that is a close simulation to swimming in water, can actually be more beneficial than actual in water swimming.

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

Since you've got the weight training background, your swimming may come along very fast if you can just get the proper feel for it. Several people on this thread swear by the Vasa so hopefully you'll have the same results with it. I wish I had access to a Vasa now myself as this thread has gotten my curiosity up. I'm sure at some point in the future I'll swim at a pool when I'm out of town that has a Vasa.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

OP here - I got my erg and finally set it up!

First impressions from only 20 minutes of VERY discontinuous use:

1. Wow it's hard. Like others posted above, I couldn't even go 4 minutes on nearly the lowest damper setting before my arms tired out. However, I will add that I suspect a big reason why it's so weirdly hard at first is likely because of the lack of water holding up your arms in the reach position. In the water, you barely have to use any muscles to hold your arms straight out in the water. However, on the Vasa, you are literally holding your extended arm unsupported in the air during tge extend phase of the stroke throughout the entire workout. So that part will take getting use to compared to the pull motion, which for me, was much more fatigue resistant. I think it's going to take me at least 2-3 weeks to get my delts strong enough so I can go full strength on the pulls without them fatiguing first.

2. I now know that a big reason why I suck so badly at swimming is that I'm just weak, weak, weak. My pace on the Vasa erg on that 4-minute interval was 2:10/100m per the Vasa and a measly 30-37 watts (!!). I was going so slowly that I could barely even get the sliding bench to slide forward off the back.

3. At least for now, my sprint (<45 sec hard) pace on the Vasa is pretty similar to my pool pace, if nearly identical. (I can get it down to around 1:20/100m but my form starts falling apart quick and then I die.) Right now, my endurance paces are much, much slower, but I think a lot of that is due to the deltoid issue I described in #1, and suspect it'll get a lot closer in the upcoming 2 weeks once that's acclimated.

4. Not much rotation right now on the bench. Not sure how it'll affect swimming in water, but I'm going to trust in Gary Hall and the others above that I'll maintain rotation in the water. On the bright side, it really does emphasize EVF. I have a mirror to check against the video demos to make sure I'm doing it right. The cables for the paddles are attached high, and if you don't keep the EVF, you'll see the cable really dip low. You could still cheat for sure, but it's pretty easy to eyeball the cable path (straight) and feel the straight paddle pull to check you're doing it mostly right.

5. It was pretty easy to setup, took about 20 minutes but mainly because I was careful. It also takes up about 9 feet of space so it's not compact, but it does roll extremely easily and isn't too heavy so you can very realsitically move it around a room - I stash mine in the side of the garage when not in use and roll it out to the middle when I use it. I still really believe Vasa could make a huge improvement here by somehow making the long middle gliderail collapsible and thus make the storage miniscule since the bench and head unit are pretty light and not that large, but for now, it's pretty good. (I could realistically envision a next-gen Vasa that could break down into pieces in <1minute and be stored in 3 feet of space just by having a collapsible gliderail.)


Again, this is definitely a premature impression, after only 1 measly 20 min workout - I'll post back after I make some progress in the upcoming weeks, but it'll probably take awhile, as right now 15 minutes on the thing pretty much wipes out my shoulders. I like it a lot already, but will reserve judgment until more use.

Well, I'm glad you've gotten it finally, and it will be interesting to hear an update in 3-4 wks on its impact on your swimming.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Curious, did you look into getting a halo for it too?

I haven't, although it probably would be a helpful addition since I'm not a FOP swimmer.

I am the same height as you and I feel the Standard one works great!

To Piggy back on this discussion, does anyone have any inroads or contacts with Crossfit Endurance (i.e. Brian mackenzie)? I simply do not have the time to put in the super long hours and the constant banging is really beating down on me. That said, i've adopted the CFE model with my crossfit coaches and I actually tested out my swim times using the CFE methodds on my VASA trainer last year when I lived in Vermont (where I met and got to know VASA and their CEO Rob Sleamaker). i really want to drop my times more after getting my ergometer, and I wanted to talk with someone who has used the erg either in lieu of expanded pool time or with the same interval focus. Let me know!

1-week reflection on my new Vasa:

- The time savings with this thing is incredible. I put in 5 hrs of Vasa training so far this week and I feel like I'm slacking hourwise this week (despite being at 14hrs thus far of SBR.)

Typically, I'd spend 5hrs of driving/prep to get in 5 hrs of swimming in a week. With the Vasa, I suddenly have ALL that time available for training. It's shocking to really get all those extra hours - it's literally like God saying "here you go, 5 extra hours per week to train, enjoy." That's how it feels to me - I don't even know what to do with all that time right now since all those driving hours are gone if I use the Vasa.

The only drawback with this time-savings is that my brain is already trying to find any/all ways to avoid going to the pool (and I actually ENJOY swimming in pools a lot!) just because it's constantly doing the math of whether 1 hr in a pool would be as high yield as 2hrs of Vasa or 1hr Vasa + 1hr run/bike.


- The VASA is really, really great for EVF training. I wish all beginners/intermediate swimmers could try this thing for a full session just to feel it.

I can barely go 4 minutes even on low-moderate intensity while holding good EVF form before my shoulders/arms burn out from fatigue. I don't think this is because the vasa is artificially harder than water - I'm pretty sure it's because I'm just so weak at a good EVF motion, and I have to just work at it. The Vasa allows you to really isolate that EVF motion and refine it, as well as get objective numbers on how strong (weak in my case) you are at it. Very eye opening for me.

- Already feeling stronger in the pool as a result of the Vasa, although it is somewhat tricky to tell this early as my arms are so rocked from the Vasa training and accentuated EVF. For sure though, the Vasa feels to me almost identical to swimming with paddles in water.


Will update further in the next few weeks, but so far, it's been really great - a lot better than I expected.

did you get it with or without power?
and i wonder how much that matters?
did you ask if there was truth to the ANT+ rumor?

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Fruit snacks are for winners

I got the powermeter one.

Right now, I'm not even strong enough to use the power function meaningfully as I can't even go 1000 yards straight on the thing without dying. (I go about 1:35/100pace in the pool though.)

This early though, I think the computer is essential - even though I'm not going by power, I do use the pace/100m which it gives you per stroke. You can really see how your pace starts high, and then starts to fade as time goes on, even when you feel like you're cranking with all you've got (fatigue). Also good to keep yourself from slacking. I def wouldn't enjoy it anywhere as much without the objective feedback - I think it's crucial for this machine.

The ANT+ rumor sounds true but right now I don't have an application for it, so not really important to me.

Glad your VASA is working out so well for you. Prob do need to swim with water at least once per week though, just to keep your feel for the "real thing":)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Just curious how the Vasa users log their workout time. Do you categorize time on the Vasa trainer as swim time or strength time when logging your workouts?

I'm sure opinions vary and I've never used the VASA, but I have done a lot of stretch cord work when deployed on USAF duty in AFG and IRQ, with no pool access. I've always counted the stretch cord work as swimming in my personal log book, just estimating the number of yards I'd have swum if I were actually in the pool based on time and level of effort. I would also do push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, free weights, etc, which I counted as strength work.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

4-wk update on the Vasa:

- Am swimming my historical fastest times (for a dead MOP adult-onset tri swimmer which isn't even remotely fast.) I haven't improved on my swim times yet, but I've only begun doing 'real' workouts on the Vasa due to a 2-3 week acclimation phase.

- I think it's totally legit. The pull feels identical to swimming with paddles to me, and uses the exact same muscles used in the pool stroke and encourages a correct high EVF.

- My paddle pull times have significantly improved, even more than my nonpaddle times. Prevasa, I was 7sec/100 slower with paddles in water, where post-vasa, I'm now 1-2sec/100 faster with small paddles. We'll see how this translates to water in the future.

- My rt shoulder always has had persistent pain issues with the recovery, to the point I switched breathing left to avoid it, despite being 7sec/100 slower on that side. The Vasa is nice in that it hasn't aggravated my rt shoulder since the recovery can be low.

- My 'pool access' stress levels went from high to zero. I used to stress all winter as to how much swim fitness I'd lose - that's no longer an issue at all. Have still been doing 1-2 lunch swims/wk to maintain water feel, which does help connect the power to the water. This has been the greatest benefit of owning a Vasa. Takes the most difficult logistical aspect of triathlon and turns it into a nonissue. Takes the limiter of my swim training from limited access, to training volume+intensity. Love it.

- The Vasa is still no magic bullet. Swimming faster is HARD work, and requires painful sets, whether you're in or out of the water. I was hoping to hit 15k of Vasa meters per week, but it's pretty hard for me to even get 12k, with good B/R volume. I'm going to need a swim-focus block in the future to really amp up swim volume.

- I still really enjoy going to the pool. In fact, I miss it if I'm not there at least once per week. I train entirely solo on run+bike, so the pool is really the only place I workout with other athletes, and even if they're lowly YMCA nonracing swimmers, it's nice to have someone else around when you're suffering through sets. Having the Vasa helps with this though - I no longer have the pressure to do a super high quality interval workout every time I hit the pool since I can hammer on the Vasa, so I'm enjoying the pool time more.

I am a new Vasa owner and am curious what you mean by "real" workouts? Would you mind sharing an example of one? Thanks!

I only mean 'real' in that I'm able to actually work hard, as opposed to just barely surviving doing laps on the thing.

Here are two really good workout links, Al Lymans' workouts are pretty good, esp if you make them longer/harder.
http://vasatrainer.com/...ticle_Lyman_full.pdf
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rum.cgi?post=2659074