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Statins and training
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Since being put on Atorvastatin (about 120 days) for high cholesterol, I have been having terrible numbness and pain in my feet during the bike and run). The statin has done a great job of lowering my bad cholesterol, but trying to train and race while on them isn't doable. As a test, I quit taking the statin meds for 4 days and the numbness and pain went away.

I have a clean diet, age 50, consistently train 14 or so hours per week (SBR and gym). High cholesterol likely genetic.

Is anyone using statins without this side-effect? If so, which one are you using?


Thanks in advance
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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If it was me I'd think about lowering the dose and still see if I'm getting the cholesterol lowering effect without the nerve issues.
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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I take Crestor 20mg / day, have been for several years. No such issues.

There are lots of statins to choose from. Discuss your suspicions with your doctor, and possibly switch to another statin. I had some issues (not the same as yours) with the first statin I was on...called doctor, and we switched to Crestor. Been happy ever since.
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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I've been taking statins for 20 years with no side effects. Talk to your doctor. And by that I mean your real doctor ... not Dr. Google, Dr. Slowtwitch, or Dr. Me.
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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Very clean diet, age 40, in great shape, beautiful, funny, charming, and extremely modest. Heart disease, all genetic.

40mg of Lipitor with no side effects. Training 12-14 hours/week.
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Re: Statins and training [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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eganski wrote:
Very clean diet, age 40, in great shape, beautiful, funny, charming, and extremely modest. Heart disease, all genetic.

40mg of Lipitor with no side effects. Training 12-14 hours/week.

Truly funny.
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Re: Statins and training [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
If it was me I'd think about lowering the dose and still see if I'm getting the cholesterol lowering effect without the nerve issues.

This.

And try a single CoQ10 pill a day if you’re not already.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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Like others have said, you should talk to your doctor. I'm on atorvastatin 20mg, too, and have been for several years. No side effects.

Attacking this day with enthusiasm unknown to mankind.
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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I've been on just about every statin. I have terrible side effects to all of them, the most debilitating being extreme fatigue. I stopped taking them. My physician agreed.

Jimmy B. wrote:
Since being put on Atorvastatin (about 120 days) for high cholesterol, I have been having terrible numbness and pain in my feet during the bike and run). The statin has done a great job of lowering my bad cholesterol, but trying to train and race while on them isn't doable. As a test, I quit taking the statin meds for 4 days and the numbness and pain went away.

I have a clean diet, age 50, consistently train 14 or so hours per week (SBR and gym). High cholesterol likely genetic.

Is anyone using statins without this side-effect? If so, which one are you using?


Thanks in advance
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Re: Statins and training [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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Very clean diet, age 40, in great shape, beautiful, funny, charming, and extremely modest.

Doin' anything Saturday night?
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Re: Statins and training [LundyLund] [ In reply to ]
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I call bull shish on all who said clean diet, without saying what their diet is. It's likely dirty eating got you to this point, but you could be still doing something not helping the problem. These drugs damage the liver and waste muscle, eventually leading to your demise. There is no need for these pills when look at the case studies of the ketogenic diet
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Re: Statins and training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
I call bull shish on all who said clean diet, without saying what their diet is. It's likely dirty eating got you to this point, but you could be still doing something not helping the problem. These drugs damage the liver and waste muscle, eventually leading to your demise. There is no need for these pills when look at the case studies of the ketogenic diet

I lived with enough people with genetic hyperlipidemia for long periods of time to actually see what they ate and know it was out of their nutritional control.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Statins and training [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
synthetic wrote:
I call bull shish on all who said clean diet, without saying what their diet is. It's likely dirty eating got you to this point, but you could be still doing something not helping the problem. These drugs damage the liver and waste muscle, eventually leading to your demise. There is no need for these pills when look at the case studies of the ketogenic diet


I lived with enough people with genetic hyperlipidemia for long periods of time to actually see what they ate and know it was out of their nutritional control.

I'm 37. I've been on statins on and off for roughly 8 years. I have had high cholesterol since I was 8. I'm not going to say I have some phenomenal diet, but I've done a lot of things to try and control my cholesterol without drugs. Hasn't worked.

Attacking this day with enthusiasm unknown to mankind.
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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I've inherited high cholestrol, dx'd at 14. Unmedicated, it's been >400.
Was taking lipitor, 20 mg not enough and 40 gave elevated liver results.
Now take the combo therapy vytorin, shame on me I don't remember the dose.
I don't observe the muscle weakness side effect. I have wondered if I felt it, and gone off a couple of times, but noted no difference.
Anyway, my Dr is on board with medicating to a cholesterol level of ~200 to reduce liver issues.

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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Try crestor or rosuvastatin, or try another one after that, until you find one that doesn't bother you as much. But also keep in mind the efficacy or number needed to treat (NNT) of the statin in reducing all cause mortality or cardiovascular related mortality, a simple google search should tell you. For example atorvastatin has

helped 1 in 60 prevent a heart attack
helped 1 in 268 in preventing a stroke

so out of 60 people who's took this drug as prescribed by the doctor, only 1 was saved from a heart attack.
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Re: Statins and training [LundyLund] [ In reply to ]
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LundyLund wrote:
sciguy wrote:
synthetic wrote:
I call bull shish on all who said clean diet, without saying what their diet is. It's likely dirty eating got you to this point, but you could be still doing something not helping the problem. These drugs damage the liver and waste muscle, eventually leading to your demise. There is no need for these pills when look at the case studies of the ketogenic diet


I lived with enough people with genetic hyperlipidemia for long periods of time to actually see what they ate and know it was out of their nutritional control.

I'm 37. I've been on statins on and off for roughly 8 years. I have had high cholesterol since I was 8. I'm not going to say I have some phenomenal diet, but I've done a lot of things to try and control my cholesterol without drugs. Hasn't worked.

Then your reply sounds quite useless if you did not commit to long term diet change. As for high cholesterol and meds, the threshold is arbitrary, absolute number matters less than ratios of HDL, vldl, a1c. As there are some cultures with high cholesterol yet low heart disease problems. The arbitrary number on total is more so it can be easier to prescribe the big dollar meds.

Mind you another factor outside of diet, smoking... Those effects outside of the lungs mainly irreversible
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Re: Statins and training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
I call bull shish on all who said clean diet, without saying what their diet is. It's likely dirty eating got you to this point, but you could be still doing something not helping the problem. These drugs damage the liver and waste muscle, eventually leading to your demise. There is no need for these pills when look at the case studies of the ketogenic diet

I call bullsh*t on this statement. Statins are probably one of the main reasons for people living longer over the past 40 years.

There are 4 statin benefit groups, known to improve M/M (morbidity/mortality) according to present guidelines.

https://www.acc.org/...elines_PDF.pdf?la=en

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/...bout-statins-busted/

(I've got to stop reading ST...)
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Re: Statins and training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:

Then your reply sounds quite useless if you did not commit to long term diet change. As for high cholesterol and meds, the threshold is arbitrary, absolute number matters less than ratios of HDL, vldl, a1c. As there are some cultures with high cholesterol yet low heart disease problems. The arbitrary number on total is more so it can be easier to prescribe the big dollar meds.

Mind you another factor outside of diet, smoking... Those effects outside of the lungs mainly irreversible

Long term diet change will do very, very little for someone with genetic hyperlipidemia whose liver just makes TOO MUCH LDL cholesterol. And put two people who have this together and MI's occur in the teens of their kids. I know, I've taken care of some of them.

No ketogenic diet will fix that.

When you get through with medical school, call me.
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Re: Statins and training [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Sanitation is actually the main reason why people's life expectancy has gone up, not statins.
And yes statins can help prevent early death from heart attacks with confidence, how much? Look at the number needed to treat, 1 in 60
Last edited by: Rest: May 29, 18 10:56
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Re: Statins and training [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not telling anyone what to do.

All I can say is I'm comfortable (after reading the literature) not taking a Statin. There seems to plenty of confounding data in the trials.

Spend some time reading about relative and absolute risk and all cause mortality in relation to Statin drugs. You may change your opinion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC4513492/
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Re: Statins and training [Rest] [ In reply to ]
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Rest wrote:
Sanitation is actually the main reason why people's life expectancy has gone up, not statins.
And yes statins can help prevent early death from heart attacks with confidence, how much? Look at the number needed to treat, 1 in 60

Show me the data on sanitation in the US and US cardiac risk. I believe you are mixing your metaphors and worldwide life expectancy is higher due to better sanitation.

The number needed to treat that you are quoting is from primary population data, not all inclusive reasons for patients to be on statins.


From the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/...databriefs/db250.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/...databriefs/db218.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/...databriefs/db254.htm


Evidence Based Summary:

https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/...eventive-medication1
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Re: Statins and training [svennn] [ In reply to ]
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svenn wrote:
I'm not telling anyone what to do.

All I can say is I'm comfortable (after reading the literature) not taking a Statin. There seems to plenty of confounding data in the trials.

Spend some time reading about relative and absolute risk and all cause mortality in relation to Statin drugs. You may change your opinion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC4513492/


I'm glad you are comfortable with your decision. It's up to you and your MD, of course.

I am personally in one of the 4 benefit groups for taking statins for primary prevention also, with a strong positive family history of SCD and premature CAD-and don't take one either. I am aware of my personal risk and potential benefit and I and my doctor are comfortable with what the plan is. I know the results of my blood work and other tests which has helped me with my decision.

It is clear that everyone should know risks and benefits of taking all of their meds. I believe there is a lot of perpetuated 'misinformation' out there regarding statins, and as one who reads the literature critically, I find it annoying and at times feel the need to make public comments, even when I really don't want to.

There is very little 'confounding data'. Anyone who has had their lipids checked should discuss their actual cardiac risk and be comfortable with decisions made.
Last edited by: dtoce: May 29, 18 11:46
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Re: Statins and training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
LundyLund wrote:
sciguy wrote:
synthetic wrote:
I call bull shish on all who said clean diet, without saying what their diet is. It's likely dirty eating got you to this point, but you could be still doing something not helping the problem. These drugs damage the liver and waste muscle, eventually leading to your demise. There is no need for these pills when look at the case studies of the ketogenic diet


I lived with enough people with genetic hyperlipidemia for long periods of time to actually see what they ate and know it was out of their nutritional control.


I'm 37. I've been on statins on and off for roughly 8 years. I have had high cholesterol since I was 8. I'm not going to say I have some phenomenal diet, but I've done a lot of things to try and control my cholesterol without drugs. Hasn't worked.


Then your reply sounds quite useless if you did not commit to long term diet change. As for high cholesterol and meds, the threshold is arbitrary, absolute number matters less than ratios of HDL, vldl, a1c. As there are some cultures with high cholesterol yet low heart disease problems. The arbitrary number on total is more so it can be easier to prescribe the big dollar meds.

Mind you another factor outside of diet, smoking... Those effects outside of the lungs mainly irreversible

I have the genetic test to prove why I need to be on statins. I know my family history. I know my risks and the risks of my children. I know that diet, exercise and my HDL/ LDL ratio do nothing to protect me from the genetic mutation I have causing insane high LDL's. I recently had a scan done of my heart and carotids. My heart is good.... a typical athletes heart, but my carotids both have plaque build up because of my genetics.

I've been on a statin for 23 years now and have no liver damage or muscle waste issues happening. Please be careful giving advice about things you know nothing about. I am the only "athlete" in my family with the cleanest diet. I'm the only one who trains and my LDL's off meds are higher than the rest of them and they have the same genetic condition! Diet and exercise are always positive, but for my condition they don't help. (If I went vegan, which I'm not willing to do, I might see a slight drop in LDL's. That's not going to happen and it wouldn't be enough no matter what.)

In terms of drugs, I recently tried Crestor after being on Lipitor for many years. The Crestor did not work for me at all. I have never had muscle soreness like that in my life. I'm back on 40mg of Lipitor with no side efforts as well at Zetia. I do take CoQ10 daily as well. My LDL is not less than 100 and it was well over 200 off meds. That's just LDL, not total cholesterol.

Maybe we should be thankful we have the option to take drugs to decrease our risks of CVD. My daughter was recently diagnosed with the same condition and is now on Lipitor for the rest of her life. Look up Familial Hypercholesteria and see the risks.
- Only 1 in 10 people with this genetic condition know they have it.
- If you have it your children have a 50% chance of getting the genetic mutation.
- Children as young as 8 are put on statins if they have the gene and their LDL's are high because they are laying plaque down in their arteries at a very young age with this condition.

I've known about my high LDL's since I was in university but only just found out what I "have" and what the risks are. Family docs don't talk about it. If you have the gene your risks are significantly higher and your LDL needs to be lower. This is also the most treatable genetic disease on the planet because of statins! If you eat "healthy", exercise, and have LDL's over 190 (adults) or 160 (kids and teens) talk to your doc about FH. I need my LDL to be lower than the general population and family docs don't often know this. Also get your Lipoprotein A checked. That is another risk factor with CVD.

I would leave my health care decisions to your cardiologist or lipid specialist if you have high LDL's. Keto is not an option for those of us with FH.

This is an excellent resource. https://thefhfoundation.org/

P.S. This is absolutely not true. "The threshold is arbitrary, absolute number matters less than ratios of HDL." I could explain why but I won't. My cardiologist told me why the Lipid calculators don't work for those of us with FH. I think he knows what he's talking about.
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Re: Statins and training [Petrus101] [ In reply to ]
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Did I miss something?

The original post said nothing about FH. He didn't even say what his numbers are.
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Re: Statins and training [svennn] [ In reply to ]
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My comment was more in reference to the person saying "don't take statins" and "all that matters is your ratio" and "a keto diet with exercise will fix us all." It won't. Good point though.

I will add that since most people with FH don't know they have it it's "easy" to assume posters on this thread could have it without knowingm if that makes sense. For me finding out didn't change much in terms of treatment but I am way more compliant with my drugs and I'm now on two drugs with a much lower targeted LDL than anything my GP thought I needed. I also got both my children tested. One has it and one doesn't. That was the other positive from the diagnosis.
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