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Standards for USAT National Championship
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I was in Shreveport over the weekend. Watched the race, talked to lots of athletes - and have decided it would be useful to discuss the appropriate standards for such an event.

This event should be one of the highlights on USAT's calendar. It should bring together the best and the brightest from the age group ranks, help knit us together as a national sport, and provide an exclamation point to an entire season. USAT does invest a considerable amount of time on this project, but, IMO, the bottom line for USAT is just that: the bottom line. Good sites are often passed over, or never considered in the first place, in favor of the "highest bidder". And that is, again in my opinion, a mistake.

In my view, the USAT National Triathlon Olympic Distance Championship should be granted to a city/organizer that can meet the following specifications. If that happens to be the "highest bidder", terrific . . . but if not, specs should prevail over profit. After all, USAT has nearly $4,000,000 in the bank right now - it can afford a few thousand to make sure its championship is a very special event.

Let's talk non-negotiable standards first. Here's mine, in order of priority:

1. TIME OF YEAR. The race ought to act as a climax to a season, but it needs to be early enough to ensure that athletes from northern states will have reasonable weather in which to train. October 4 (Shreveport, 2003) is too late - the temperatures in the Great Lakes region can plummet once September rolls around (as they did this year). June (Clermont, 1998) is too early - it just doesn't sum up the season. Labor Day weekend (St. Joseph in 1999 and 2000, Coeur d'Alene in 2001 and 2002) is about perfect.

2. BIKE COURSE. Nothing, NOTHING is more important for a successful championship. Some athletes had no trouble on Shreveport's flat, one-lane bike course - but congestion and drafting was a huge problem for many others. Flat, one-lane courses are o.k. at a local race, with smaller numbers and a wider range of abilities. But the Shreveport field was over 1,200 strong, and the range of abilities was small; in the 35-39 men's field, for example, you had 70 athletes who swam and rode the course within three minutes of each other. That's a recipe for drafting problems.

In other words, a championship course needs a championship bike course. The ideal course would have lots of hills, smooth pavement, and at least two lanes over much of the course. Orange County (1996) met those specs perfectly, and so did Coeur d'Alene. Clermont had lots of hills, and even though it didn't have two lanes in all places, it still took care of much of the drafting opportunities. Even Columbia (1994 and 1997) worked because of the hills and Leon's (1990, 1991, 1993) did too because - even though primarily flat - it had three lanes over much of the route. But Shreveport was another story.

3. BODY OF WATER. IMO, we ought to ensure the swim will be in a body of water that someone would actually consider swimming in of their own choice. Coeur d'Alene was terrific. St. Joseph was borderline lousy - and Shreveport, if anything, was even worse. The man-made "lagoon" was no more than eight feet deep, with the bottom covered with 18" or more of ooze and with water so ugly you couldn't see your hand as it entered. Additionally, the lake is very narrow, so much so that the course had to have two 180 degree turns. And because the lake is used by competitive waterskiers, there were permanent structures and course markers throughout the route of the triathlon swim. Three different athletes I talked to smashed their hands on one or another of these objects along the way.

4. MAJOR AIRPORT. I believe the race ought to be within 40 miles of a major airport . . . and I would define "major"' as being served by jets which can actually bring in both you and your bike. Athletes going to Shreveport were warned that the jets serving that city were small and could only carry one or two bikes at a time. So a huge number of athletes had to make other plans. Many of us flew to Dallas and drove back to Shreveport - but that was 200 miles each way. Others sent their bikes by FedEx or UPS - but to make sure they reached Shreveport in time, they had to package them up 8-10 days prior to the event. Sorry: not everyone has an extra bike on which to train.

5. CITY APPRECIATION. The host city ought to WANT the event. Shreveport didn't do badly on this specification; the people putting it on were very friendly and did a good job with what they had to work with. But, on the most crucial issue - the bike course - they didn't have the political will to close enough roads. Instead the bike course ended up going twice up and down a five-mile portion of a parkway (out in one of the two north-bound lanes, back in the other north-bound land, u-turn around the median, then out in one of the two southbound lanes and back in the other), with a weird out-and-back on a two-lane service road behind some athletic fields added to get an exact 40K. Shreveport was willing to have the race, but only so long as we didn't get in anyone's way.

Lew
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with all of your points except timing. Labor Day weekend (all holiday weekends for that matter) is very expensive to travel on, and it is also a weekend that requires many to tend to family affairs. (Not a family man myself, but why not look out for them.) It seems like if they moved it to the next weekend (on or about September 7th), it would not only be better for traveling, but it would also open the door to a lot of venues that aren't available during the summer season (which ends labor day weekend).


"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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I pretty much agree.

I don't really think hills have to be manditory, however. Ideally I would like to see the race alternate region of the country and preferable mimic a regions topography. This way at least some of the time everyone gets a course that suits them. The 2002 Lake Placid qualifier was a good example, its a hilly area and had a hilly course

That aside I would like to see some modification from the 1.5k/40k/10k standard. I've been at plenty of races with great courses where they do goofy things just to hit specific distances. For instance a 39.5k ride around a lake with a short out and back into a neighborhood to make 40 k. I would like to see swims of 1-2k, bikes of 35 - 45 k and runs of 8 - 12 k. This way you can come up with the best course possible. Also, you would get some courses favoring swimmers, some runners, and some cyclists.

Finally for a championship - I think there should be some sort of entry standards. I have nothing wrong with people who are in the sport just to finish the race, but for one race a year it would be nice if everyone is out there racing. Maybe no one day licences would work. Also, no nats race if you have three or more penalties in earlier races that year.

Thanks

Shawn Tyrrell
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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USAT and i have a gentle disagreement about this. they want to move the race around. i think it ought to be in the same spot every year. kona is, hilton head was the place in the 80s, it's maui for xterra, it's zofingen for p'man, and the argument that people like to move the race around is, on its face, thin, i think.

what happens when you move it around? you get st. jo's, and shreveport, and clermont, all of which generate an "ick" from most of the people i talk to. the races are produced well, but the area is so-so.

otoh, people really liked CDA and lake placid. maybe move it back and forth every other year, or just pick CDA and that's it. or another place, a fun place, easy to get to, that wants the race, and has hotels that need filling, roads easy to control, etc.

but, lew, i'm with you. when AGers already pay in $4 million, why make them suffer by choosing a city only because it pays a site fee? isn't $4 million enough for AGers to have to pay?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Gotta agree with everything you said. I can see the point of having the World's Qualifier (if there is an extra event for that like this year) in a place like Menomonie that will mimic the actual World Championship's conditions. But judging by the low turnout at that event this year, they need to pick better venues. I will withold judgment on Shreveport until I talk to my friends who did the race, but from what I've seen so far, the race could have been so much better done.
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [smtyrrell99] [ In reply to ]
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Shawn,
* Nationals is the qualifying race for ITU worlds, which will for the time being be 1.5-40-10, so it just makes sense to field the worlds team in a similar race. i.e. Field the strongest team for the Big Show.

* Athletes do have to qualify for Nationals...here is the criteria.

All Team USA Triathlon members from any year since 1989.
Competition in a sanctioned non-championship event (triathlon and duathlon), finish in the top three or 25 percent of the age group, whichever is easiest to meet.
In a sanctioned regional or national championship event (both triathlon and duathlon), finish in the top five or 33.3 percent of the age group, whichever is easiest to meet. Events where qualifying is to be met must have taken place between the last nationals in September and the next nationals in October (the weekend before this year's nationals).


"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Great points, no disagreements. Races calling themselves National Championships should be worthy of the title.

But the real question is: how do we get the USAT to wake up and actually make decisions regarding race sites (and other things) that truly consider the needs of the athletes? Because usually they don't.

The 'highest bidder' criteria that you mention only underlines the fact that money/profit talks and usually the needs of the competitors take a pathetic back seat.

Also, anybody know WHY the USAT has decided to stockpile nearly $4,000,000 of our money? This is while raising USAT membership fees?!





Where would you want to swim ?
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]
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Good question Greg, I'm going to ask for a new bike from Santa Steve.
I think nationals should be designed to mimic the course worlds will be held at. Cancun, if memory serrves correctly, is flat as a pancake so Nationals should be held on a course that can be flat, hot and windy. Something like Leons, Chicago or Hilton Head in a heat wave. If Worlds is going to be hilly make the race hilly. Duathlon nationals and Worlds in 2002 is a great example of this. Both hilly.
If you mimic the worlds course you'll get the best suited athletes for that particular course type racing worlds.
If thats not an option USAT should find 2-4 races that are neutral indesign, flats and rollers and give each race nationals for 2-3 years then rotate.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Mark C] [ In reply to ]
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so here's my question for the experienced guys and gals out there. are the qualifying standards for nationals stringent enough? i mean no disrespect to anyone who went--i'm just curious. i'm a relative newbie andlove the sport. a few days ago i started asking myself "what exactly does it take to get to nationals?" i know two people who went and they are both hardcore--both finished top30 in their AG, one qualified for worlds. after reading the criteria, i'm not surprised by the 1300 competitors. i could have gone! but there is no way in hell i'm mixin' it up with the big dogs down there. then i started thinking if i can qualify, there must be some people showing up that qualified at their tiny little local tri. so what do you guys think? i have no reasonable alternative, i'm just curious. did anyone go to nationals, see someone/overhear someone during the race and say to themself "what the hell are you doing here?"

whineyass
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Lew, I agree with you re the venue. There were a number of people from the New Orleans area who went to the initial Tinman and were cleaning dirt from their hair and ears for a week following the swim. I was much suprised to see the USAT award the Nationals to this site.
Although I qualified, my first concern was with the swim conditions. I think I could have competed with my age group on the swim and bike but I cannot run. The run thing and the fact I did not want to swim in Champions lake made me stay home even though I live in Louisiana, albeit, 5 1/2 hours from Shreveport.
That being said, I will probably show up next year if the run has come around.

Bob Sigerson
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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What you say makes some sense - I just didn't think it was a non-negotiable item. Example: The 1990 and 1991 worlds were held on flat, draft-fest courses at Disney and Surfer's Paradise - but should that mean we must relegate our nationals to the same tawdry standard. The 1996 worlds were held on a truly awful bike course in Cleveland - not quite as flat as Disney, but with amazingly bad pavement and terribly unfair transitions. The 1992 worlds were held on a morning where race start temperatures were below freezing. Do we need to replicate those?

Nationals should be much more than just a qualifier for worlds. The slots for worlds are a feature - but the real importance of the race should be as our one true national championship. Let us set the bar as high as possible - maybe the ITU will imitate us.

Besides, fast is fast, no matter what the terrain. Pete Kain, Jim Bruskewitz, Paula Larsen, and Susan Bradley-Cox (just as examples) are right there in any terrain. What CAN skew the results, however, is rampant drafting. Controlling that should always come first.

Lew
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Mark C] [ In reply to ]
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Though those standards are pretty lax, IMO. I did a "neighborhood" but USAT-sanctioned race a couple weeks ago. Based on the top 3 in a sanctioned event criteria, I can now say I missed qualifying for nationals by a minute and a half. (ended up with a 4th place time for 30-34 women)

Thing is, I suck. I ran a 30:51 5K in that race. Flat run course, not too hot, no reason to be going that slow. So if I'd gone a 29 low, I could have gone road tripping to Shreveport.

And anything sentence that has the potential to have my name and the phrase "qualified for Nationals" in the same sentence is just so wrong at so many levels it's laughable.

But you want a full field, so you write the criteria lax and get the entry fees, I guess.
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Just back from Shreveport myself and couldn't agree with you more!

After racing Nat'ls in CdA last year, I convinced a couple of friends to go with me this year. I have to say I felt bad that I had told them how great it was, because it was nothing like my previous wonderful Nat'ls experience.

The swim was nothing short of disgusting! The bike was boring and the run was not exactly challenging. It sure didn't seem like Nat'ls to me!

Just getting to the race was difficult as well. We ended up doing a drive-fly-drive triathlon of travel.

And the kicker was that most of the top AG athletes came to race!

I couldn't help but come to the conclusion that the site selection process had to involve a map, a blindfold and a stickpin.............why else would that site have been selected?

If the race is held in Shreveport next year, I seriously doubt that I will attend. Don't mean to slight Shreveport, the people were great, but the town is not one that I will miss.

G


It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.
Last edited by: gleveq: Oct 6, 03 13:59
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Lew I agree fast is fast and most often the fastest athlete comes across the line first regardless of the course. I also agree that drafting needs to be controlled, especially on flater courses. 1 lane will not suffice when you have 20 guys who exit the swim within 1min and can ride within 2 mins of each other. Your just asking for a bike race to break out at the triathlon.
But if nationals are on a hilly course and worlds are on a flat course you might take some athletes who can climb but can not drop the hammer and go super fast. I train with a guy who drops everyone but the posties when they are in town and a couple of the CAT 1 guys when going up the mountains. The guy can flat out climb. His best 40k though is 59 and change. If he were to qualify on a hilly course and worlds was flat he'd get smoked. He'd probably not qualify on a flat nationals course.
I should have posted that ideally the terrain of Nationals should be similiar to the terrain of Worlds. Flat does not mean "tawdry". If you have a well designed, thought out course, can control drafting, bring a high level of excitment and anticipation to the race then I think no matter what the course, hilly, flat, in between, you'll end up with a good to great Nationals.
Mother nature well she's a different lady. The ITU, love them or hate them, seems rather interested in producing fast times vs accurate courses. I'm not so sure they can reach that high bar yet.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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We agree on nearly everything (the shame of it) . . . but, with 16 qualifying for worlds in every division, even the flat-course goliaths should be able to make the cut in more testing terrain. What a hilly nationals/flat worlds would really mean is that the winners in one might well not be the winners in the other. Nothing wrong with that, as far as I can see.

Lew
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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This USAT questioning should raise everyone's brow. I stated before in another thread (that is way too entertaining) about the NCAA Nationals in NoWhere, Arizona this year. It was awful, the worst bike course I've ever been a part of because I was on a 'highway' with cars flying by me at 80 mph, with absolutly NO volunteers. Why would USAT let this happen? Well, after emailing the race director 5 times and did not get a response, I dug a little deeper to find that the director was the ex-pres of USAT.

This race in Shreveport sounds like much the same thing. If it's not a race director that USAT needs to help out, then its a very appealing pile of cash that USAT and add to the bank, that influences their decision making. Am I just seeing things, or is there something more to all of this???
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Lew, as usual, great ideas. I think what we need is an advocate who is involved in triathlon at more than the participant level that has the ability to get the USAT "powers that be" on the phone to talk about this. The fast responses on this and other web site should provide some level of proof that the community in general is thinking along these lines. Maybe someone like a well respected professional coach, or an icon of the triathlon world, former bike/wetsuit company owner, well-known bike shop owner or all of the above could contact Steve at USAT and request a conference call or meeting. My 2 cents would be to have USAT allow some kind of vote on the locations being considered for future Nationals. With 4 million in the bank and the sport and membership growing, USAT could put forth a small increase in effort that would cause a huge increase in member satisfaction and membership expansion.
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. I am relatively new to the sport and this was my first AG national championship race so all I have to compare it with was local and regional races. I am also from Shreveport so I have some bias, but even so will offer my few points. First, I agree with the time issue-Oct. 4 is too late-mid September would be great. Next, I agree that conditions were not the greatest. However, they never are in this part of the country. These are the conditions we have to train and race on week after week. I think it is important to move the race around the country to experience all the conditions we have to deal with-not just the pristine waters, good roads, etc. I can see how standards may need to be higher. While I was 31st in AG, and had a good race for me with a PR on this distance race, for the caliber of competition in the group that handed me my head I can see that tougher qualifying standards would make the race even more competitive. Unfortunately that will prevent other less talented or experienced folks from being able to participate and make the event more of an elitist event only. I am not sure that is good for the sport.
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [drt] [ In reply to ]
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Your post reminded me of another important standard - not for the venue in this case, but for the event as a whole. You and others have marveled at the quality of the competition, and having that is what ultimately distinguishes nationals from just another mass race. But we get that depth of competition if and only if the race is the ONLY qualifier for worlds.

This event should be our own special olympic trials - all 16 slots on the line, one day, do or die. If we do this, it brings all of the top guns out, allows bonds to form across state and regional lines, and knits us together as a true national sport. But when, as USAT has been doing for the past few years, we start setting up second races with qualifying slots (or in the case of duathlon, six or seven such co-equals), we dilute the effect. Let's have this race be the shining jewel for American age groupers.

Lew
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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It's too bad we don' t have Hilton Head or Orange County for triathlon, nor the Desert Princess for Duathlon. One big race with all the marbles on the line. CDA seems to be a great place for triathlon. Let's get Nats back there and keep it there. If the town can count on a significant influx of cash the weekend following Labor Day they will be even more supportive than their already stellar level.

And keep the race a managable size for the course. If it takes going to a qualifying system like Ironman to get to Nats, so be it. Nats should be our elite. And the worlds team should not be the person in 30th place who bugged the office until someone let them in.

If everyone on this forum emails USAT to share their thoughts and views, they'll get the message.

Thanks Lew for bringing this discussion forward.
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Lew Kidder] [ In reply to ]
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Lew, I completly agree with you - this should be THE premier event of the season. USAT seems not be looking at things from an athlete's perspective. It seems to be looking at things from a convenience perspective. This is bad business in the long run.

Oct. 4th was indeed too late. Living in NY, I know exactly what you are talking about. You have to remember though that CA, TX and FL represent about 50% of all the triathlon population. Sometime in between Jul-Sept does seem more desirable.

The bike course was as boring as they come. There was just no challenge to it - no turns, no hills, no nothing. Maybe that was the challenge! It was also very dangerous to have folks headed at eachother at over 50mph with just a yellow line seperating them. A bit more wind on race morning and I bet there would have been a head-on crash. It certainly was the worst viewer friendly course ever.

The swamp they used as a swim venue was just crazy. The water was very calm and water temperature was ideal, but the visibility was terrible, there was scafolding and all sorts of bouys laying around.

USAT does not realize that for most athletes, going to a race like this means taking time off from work. Going to Shreveport is not likely to be on anyone's list of top vacations destinations. It would be nice to be able to take off three or four days and actually enjoy the host town rather than spend most of the time in your hotel room. Obviously getting 1000 or so bike cases into town on Embaer jets is a nightmare in itself.
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [Bearis] [ In reply to ]
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That's an excellent point about emailing USAT. But, don't you think that USAT should have the senses to develop a way to find out where the athletes really want to go? In my mind USAT is a BAD business and does not have the correct people at the wheel. I've thought that way for a long time. I truly hope that there is some type of competition for USAT in the near future, because at this rate of performance, triathlon will be a thing of the past again.

It's a shame you have to go to a race in Shreveport and have to sit in your hotel room ALL day just because USAT picked a not-so-friendly host city. My friends said the same thing...they had to search for a decent restaurant to eat at.

If USAT can't get it right, then what business do they have making the rules. Seriously, if they demand the best from RD's, should we have someone who has to govern USAT? That's the problem with triathlon is that the only person that can do it right is Terry Davis, and he is too busy being on national TV to host a race in Shreveport.

The reports I received were, a lot of people were running into permanent structures in the water right in the middle of the swim course, the bike course is a disaster waiting to happen because of the out-and-back layout of the course, with nothing in between the bikes going opposite directions, and it was a physical challenge just to get to the host hotel!

There will be someone who competes with USAT. As with all good industries, a monopoly can only last so long, because the leaders have turned a blind eye to what the population is calling for.

Lew, thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. You have enough experience, why don't you start a new USAT...how about Triathlon USA? I feel you would have a ton of supporters!

But, I will not vote for you while you run for a USAT board position. I've known too many who have gone into that board thinking they were going to change Steve Locke, and all they did was successfully outcast themselves from that Good Old Boys Club.
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [UMGrad] [ In reply to ]
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Hey UMGrad,



Just for a bit of perspective, my fiance, who is a former professional mountain biker and cat. II road cyclist, was really impressed with the job that USAT did organizing this year's USAT National Championships. She was comparing the job USAT did to the job USA Cycling does with their Elite National Road Championships (suffice it to say that USA Cycling did a really lousy job with the 2003 Nationals).



Maybe USAT didn't do such a bad job this past weekend? Sure, there were things that could have been done a lot better, but it also could have been a lot worse. I don't know the national USAT politics scene at all, but Lew seems to be really well respected. I'd guess that his constructive criticism will be taken into account and improvements will be made in the future.



Champion Lake was quite disgusting.



Did anyone else stumble upon Leon's BBQ? Quite tasty...
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [drt] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Next, I agree that conditions were not the greatest. However, they never are in this part of the country. These are the conditions we have to train and race on week after week. I think it is important to move the race around the country to experience all the conditions we have to deal with-not just the pristine waters, good roads, etc. That doesn't make sense. It's the CHAMPIONSHIP! An effort absolutely should be made to have pristine waters, good roads, scenery, accessible venue, etc... After all, they move the Super Bowl around, but you don't ever see it in Green Bay, Buffalo, or Cleveland. All are great football towns, but who wants to travel to any of them for the championship? It seems like it's held in San Diego or New Orleans just about every year. I like the idea of holding it in one place or possibly alternating two, solid locations(east, west)?
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Re: Standards for USAT National Championship [UMGrad] [ In reply to ]
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UM Grad wrote

Lew, thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. You have enough experience, why don't you start a new USAT...how about Triathlon USA? I feel you would have a ton of supporters!

But, I will not vote for you while you run for a USAT board position. I've known too many who have gone into that board thinking they were going to change Steve Locke, and all they did was successfully outcast themselves from that Good Old Boys Club.


This leaves me confused. You think the guy has good ideas, but you wont put him in a position to use them. We have three ways to go right now - Keep USAT as is, Change USAT, or Start a new federation.

From my perspective changing USAT makes the most sense. They already have a hugh customer base, a majority of affiliated races, and most importantly 4 million dollars.

I've been through this with cycling (way more screwed up than tri - trust me). The likely outcome of a new federation is that you have to pay both to race, or else select races in your area based on which federation's sanction it has.

I happen to have met Lew on a number of occasions. You may agree with his views or disagree with them, but he aint likely to be joining the old boys club. I won't tell you whom to vote for, but if you plan on continuing doing tris vote for someone.
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