Spring Racing

Mar 13, 21 9:02

Post #1 of 64 (2635 views)

In 2011, I found myself standing on the banks of the Delaware River the afternoon before Poconos 70.3. The river was raging and cold. Tree logs were floating down the river. By late afternoon, the race director still hadn’t cancelled the swim. This added anxiety to an already anxious situation. It wasn’t until we showed up at the start that I found out the race director had cancelled the swim and made it a duathlon. The race director put a ton of people through a great deal of anxiety because there was a tiny chance that the Delaware River would miraculously recede.

As I think about St. George on May 1, I am reminded of the Poconos. Instead of a raging river, there is a raging virus. Thousands of us are standing on the bank wondering if Ironman’s going to hold races that put us in a dangerous situation. Will the virus recede by May 1 so that it is safe to race? There is less of a chance of this happening than there was of Delaware River receding.

I live in California. We just allowed high school football to return. The first games are this weekend. What happened? Many games were cancelled due to COVID outbreaks on teams. These outbreaks were caught because teams are required by state to test players. What is going to happen if St. George and other triathlons occur? There are going to be outbreaks. This will happen because thousands of people who have not been vaccinated will be near each other racing, eating, and traveling. The difference between high school football and triathlon is that the average triathlete is much older and more at risk than a teenager. The other difference is there will be no mandated COVID testing.

I have received many emails from Ironman this week about St. George. I am fairly confident that the race will occur because Ironman and Utah seem to believe that it is safe to race. Personally, I believe that holding this event is not any different than asking people to swim in a flooding Delaware River. If race directors won’t hold swims due to unsafe conditions, then how can they hold races this spring when they are putting racers, volunteers, and host communities at risk.

It looks like we will be able to safely race by July or August. The light is at the end of the tunnel is so close. I hope that Ironman makes the responsible, unpopular decision and postpone all spring races. I look forward to racing this fall after I get my vaccination. Be safe!!!

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 9:40

Post #2 of 64 (2616 views)

riverdaledad wrote:

In 2011, I found myself standing on the banks of the Delaware River the afternoon before Poconos 70.3. The river was raging and cold. Tree logs were floating down the river. By late afternoon, the race director still hadn’t cancelled the swim. This added anxiety to an already anxious situation. It wasn’t until we showed up at the start that I found out the race director had cancelled the swim and made it a duathlon. The race director put a ton of people through a great deal of anxiety because there was a tiny chance that the Delaware River would miraculously recede.

As I think about St. George on May 1, I am reminded of the Poconos. Instead of a raging river, there is a raging virus. Thousands of us are standing on the bank wondering if Ironman’s going to hold races that put us in a dangerous situation. Will the virus recede by May 1 so that it is safe to race? There is less of a chance of this happening than there was of Delaware River receding.

I live in California. We just allowed high school football to return. The first games are this weekend. What happened? Many games were cancelled due to COVID outbreaks on teams. These outbreaks were caught because teams are required by state to test players. What is going to happen if St. George and other triathlons occur? There are going to be outbreaks. This will happen because thousands of people who have not been vaccinated will be near each other racing, eating, and traveling. The difference between high school football and triathlon is that the average triathlete is much older and more at risk than a teenager. The other difference is there will be no mandated COVID testing.

I have received many emails from Ironman this week about St. George. I am fairly confident that the race will occur because Ironman and Utah seem to believe that it is safe to race. Personally, I believe that holding this event is not any different than asking people to swim in a flooding Delaware River. If race directors won’t hold swims due to unsafe conditions, then how can they hold races this spring when they are putting racers, volunteers, and host communities at risk.

It looks like we will be able to safely race by July or August. The light is at the end of the tunnel is so close. I hope that Ironman makes the responsible, unpopular decision and postpone all spring races. I look forward to racing this fall after I get my vaccination. Be safe!!!

If you feel that racing is a dangerous situation then I suggest you just not race until you feel comfortable racing again. Everyone's risk tolerance is different and it isn't up to the race organization, business, etc. to conform to the "lowest common denominator" of their customers.

Re: Spring Racing [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 13:07

Post #3 of 64 (2569 views)

FuzzyRunner wrote:

riverdaledad wrote:

In 2011, I found myself standing on the banks of the Delaware River the afternoon before Poconos 70.3. The river was raging and cold. Tree logs were floating down the river. By late afternoon, the race director still hadn’t cancelled the swim. This added anxiety to an already anxious situation. It wasn’t until we showed up at the start that I found out the race director had cancelled the swim and made it a duathlon. The race director put a ton of people through a great deal of anxiety because there was a tiny chance that the Delaware River would miraculously recede.

As I think about St. George on May 1, I am reminded of the Poconos. Instead of a raging river, there is a raging virus. Thousands of us are standing on the bank wondering if Ironman’s going to hold races that put us in a dangerous situation. Will the virus recede by May 1 so that it is safe to race? There is less of a chance of this happening than there was of Delaware River receding.

I live in California. We just allowed high school football to return. The first games are this weekend. What happened? Many games were cancelled due to COVID outbreaks on teams. These outbreaks were caught because teams are required by state to test players. What is going to happen if St. George and other triathlons occur? There are going to be outbreaks. This will happen because thousands of people who have not been vaccinated will be near each other racing, eating, and traveling. The difference between high school football and triathlon is that the average triathlete is much older and more at risk than a teenager. The other difference is there will be no mandated COVID testing.

I have received many emails from Ironman this week about St. George. I am fairly confident that the race will occur because Ironman and Utah seem to believe that it is safe to race. Personally, I believe that holding this event is not any different than asking people to swim in a flooding Delaware River. If race directors won’t hold swims due to unsafe conditions, then how can they hold races this spring when they are putting racers, volunteers, and host communities at risk.

It looks like we will be able to safely race by July or August. The light is at the end of the tunnel is so close. I hope that Ironman makes the responsible, unpopular decision and postpone all spring races. I look forward to racing this fall after I get my vaccination. Be safe!!!

If you feel that racing is a dangerous situation then I suggest you just not race until you feel comfortable racing again. Everyone's risk tolerance is different and it isn't up to the race organization, business, etc. to conform to the "lowest common denominator" of their customers.

Fuzzy - your logic fails especially when juxtaposed with the op’s analogy. Swimming cancellations are for weakest swimmers - if some could drown it’s not safe. I’m not sure that the method by which someone dies during a race should be determinative whether the race is safe.

By the way, I’m against cancelling swims unless it’s really dangerous not just a little windy/choppy (you signed up to swim in open water you should be prepared), but i understand why the rd cancels.

Re: Spring Racing [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 14:31

Post #4 of 64 (2532 views)

The main reason I am not racing until I am vaccinated is because there will be hundreds of people at every race with the same view of COVID as fuzzy. Even after 530,000 deaths, they still don’t take it seriously and don’t follow the recommended state and federal guidelines. I don’t want to get COVID weeks before I get a vaccination. The lowest common denominator in our society is people who risk the health of others in order to participate in recreation. Let’s return to racing this summer when we are vaccinated.

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 15:32

Post #5 of 64 (2520 views)

Odd post. Races have been happening since fall 2020. I haven’t read a single story anywhere of a Covid spread at a race. Perhaps you have seen one you could share. Otherwise, a soapbox of unsafe racing is a little uninformed.

Ditto your example of HS sports. CA is a little behind. Much of the country has been supporting HS sports since fall 2020. In general, most held their games with few cancellations and any kind of material spread. It was a non-event.

Last edited by: exxxviii: Mar 13, 21 15:43

Re: Spring Racing [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 15:46

Post #6 of 64 (2507 views)

Muskoka thought it was prudent to shift race a few weeks to increase the number of racers who are vaccinated. I am simply saying that Ironman shouldn’t have races until most of us have been vaccinated. This is probably August.

“Based on the recommendations from the local authorities and other key stakeholders in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic, we regret to share that the Subaru IRONMAN 70.3 Muskoka triathlon cannot take place on July 11, 2021 and have determined it will be better positioned to return on August 29, 2021. Our team will continue to work hard developing and refining operational plans in a manner consistent with local community objectives and within the guidelines and recommendations set by public health entities as it relates to COVID-19. The IRONMAN Safe Return to Racing guidelines will be updated as policies are refined and can be viewed here.”

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 15:47

Post #7 of 64 (2505 views)

Again, sports and races have been happening safely for months. Why would anyone postpone? It seems that science actually supports moving forward.

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 16:13

Post #8 of 64 (2482 views)

Gov Newsom, is that you?? Please guide us in wisdom and fear, please make everyone conform to your rules because of your fears. Thank you for saving us all!!

Re: Spring Racing [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 16:15

Post #9 of 64 (2481 views)

Agree.
We can dig deeper and acknowledge that races can be dangerous even without covid!
I fell during Ironman Wales when descending on a slippery road and broke my helmet in pieces. During Ironman 70.3 Dubai 2019 I almost fell on 23+ mph while being in a big draft train. I suppose that consequences could have been much harder than getting a virus.
So I personally ready to take my chances with racing (and been ready for a while), while respecting those who don't.

Re: Spring Racing [NickMa] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 16:35

Post #10 of 64 (2458 views)

First weekend of high school football is off to a rough start in my home state. This is what happens when you get a whole bunch of athletes together who haven’t been vaccinated.

https://www.google.com/...e-covid-19-test/amp/

If you head to Yosemite to do a little free climbing, then it is your choice. If you fall, you aren’t hurting anyone else. If 4,000 people ignore the risk of COVID and get together for a race, each of those people is risking their health and life AND the health and life of everybody they interact with on the plane and at the race venue. Unlike football players, there will be no mandated testing at triathlons this spring.

My wife runs a high school in the Bay Area that has been in-person since October. I have been scared every day she leaves. My riding partner is an ER doctor who has seen many people die of COVID. I worry about his health every day. Luckily, they are both vaccinated. One of his colleagues died of COVID. My wife and friend are essential workers. They are risking their health to help other people. Triathlon is not essential. Let’s wait until we are vaccinated.

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 17:15

Post #11 of 64 (2422 views)

I'm agreeing with you. People seem to be focussed on the risk to themselves.

Are people who are choosing to race in contact with their family or co-workers? I hope not but it would strengthen their case if people wanting to race confirmed their monastic existence outside this race.

How do you think the people of St George feel about an influx of people from all over? People discuss this like they teleport to the race line and disappear after the race. Where are you staying and eating? How many people taking part flew there? Quick thought experiment imagine calling the people working at the covid unit serving St George. What do you think they'd want you to do? Has anyone checked the stats in that area?

On average how many people have an accident during a 70.3 triathlon? Of course it won't be me or whoever chimes in on this thread. But statistically it will happen and those people will been seen by volunteers, maybe taken to a hospital. Family member of mine caught covid by slipping at home and going to a fracture clinic. No covid ward in that hospital but caught it anyway. They couldn't avoid that accident other than not being clumsy everyone who hurts themselves at st george could of avoided it.

Maybe the tracing is brilliant in the US at the moment. In the UK you are either positive or negative. Your case is only getting looked into if you have a rare strain. Effectively nobody knows where they got it so nobody knows how risky a tri like this is. The point is by tri we don't mean the race in isolation we mean the travel to a different area for a time and everything that goes with it.

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 17:28

Post #12 of 64 (2401 views)

We’ve been bike racing in Texas for months now - most every weekend actually

Not a single case

AFAIK, basically no one gets covid transmitted whilst being outdoors

If you don’t react to race, don’t do it. Ironman isn’t putting you in an unsafe situation - you are choosing to put yourself in a situation that science says is pretty safe...

Re: Spring Racing [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 17:45

Post #13 of 64 (2384 views)

Thousands of untested people traveling on planes to a small Utah town and staying in hotels and eating indoors at restaurants and hanging out together at bars and spreading COVID is totally different than you and your buddies racing at an office park in Plano.

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 17:48

Post #14 of 64 (2381 views)

Spring break is going on in Florida right now ... you can go to a bar, eat at restaurants, etc

Why would IM not hold a race, that they legally can, because you’re choosing not to go to? Take personal responsibility instead of blaming it on someone else

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 17:56

Post #15 of 64 (2367 views)

Well, thousands of people travel on planes every day in US. Almost all of them interact with other people indoors for prolonged period of time.
Why are we shaming open-air triathlon events with literally 0 interaction with other people?

If someone falls during riding in a group in a race (that happens every time), it could lead to many serious injuries and even fatalities. Like in Dubai.
And yes, dozens of people fell every race.

I live in San Francisco, and I almost got hit twice by cars on pedestrian crossings last year (one driver threatened me, he clearly was on drugs). I was two steps from death in both cases.
Replace me with your relative. Life is dangerous, right?

You mention school football cases (and 99%+ that the guys will be fine after one week), I mention youth suicides, obesity and lack of education.
I see people living in fear, wearing two masks outdoors, having mental problems because of the unnecessary fear, and having signs of social anxiety disorder.

Again, everyone who is uncomfortable with racing, can stay home and encourage their relatives to do the same.

I'm not covid denier, I accept it, and I haven't been in contact with old people or someone who doesn't wanna a close contact (like small-talks in hallways, eating indoors with strangers etc) for almost a year.

Re: Spring Racing [NickMa] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 18:23

Post #16 of 64 (2340 views)

Are triathletes going to sleep by themselves in tents in the woods on race weekend? Are they going to drive to St. George from Boston? Are they going to bring two dozen Power Bars and eat alone in their tents? Nope!! They are going to be inside planes, Hilton’s, McDonalds, and hundreds of other indoor businesses. Exactly the places where COVID spreads as your pie chart clearly shows.

I live in the Bay Area too. I would absolutely never ride in San Francisco. I don’t give a shot if you choose to ride in San Francisco. You talked about almost being hit by a driver on drugs. If you go to a big race before there is a vaccine, then you are the driver on drugs. You choose to take an selfish action that makes you happier and increases the risk of harm to other people. These people could be your family, fellow competitors, volunteers.

This virus has been so bad in this country because so many people have refused to take simple actions (masks, social distancing, not doing triathlon during a pandemic) that could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 18:41

Post #17 of 64 (2326 views)

This should be In lavender room.

Just a couple of notes to keep in mind:

79% of Utah residents over 70 are vaccinated already.

64% over 60 done.

Starting April 1st every person in Utah 18+ can get a vaccine.

Only 144 in hospital, which 59 are in ICU

Utah has around 3million people

1million vaccine shots already given.

Therefore, by May 1st I would say you are not putting many locals at much risk. The risk is to the 2k athlete therefore if you feel risk is too high stay home. Those who feel risk is tolerable will come.

StG will have this race as they have had softball, soccer, dance, baseball and volleyball tournaments for last 3 months and no traceable spread has occurred from them.

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 19:15

Post #18 of 64 (2298 views)

You mention advice you’ll race when YOU get a vaccine. pretty selfish IMO as you can still transmit the disease after you get the vaccine

What’s the real issue? Are you undertrained and looking for an excuse / someone to tell you not to go?

Re: Spring Racing [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 19:59

Post #19 of 64 (2270 views)

mvenneta wrote:

We’ve been bike racing in Texas for months now - most every weekend actually

Not a single case

AFAIK, basically no one gets covid transmitted whilst being outdoors

If you don’t react to race, don’t do it. Ironman isn’t putting you in an unsafe situation - you are choosing to put yourself in a situation that science says is pretty safe...

Yes, but Texas also gave us Ted Cruz, so please excuse the rest of us if we don't trust your judgement. :)

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Re: Spring Racing [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Mar 13, 21 20:06

Post #20 of 64 (2263 views)

Not a case in the whole of Texas

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/

Re: Spring Racing [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]

Mar 14, 21 6:58

Post #21 of 64 (2197 views)

This is so exhausting. Why should I not be able to race because you don’t think it’s “safe enough”? Why should WTC not be able to function as a business because you don’t think it’s “safe enough”? Plenty of us think it’s been safe enough for a while. Everyone who wants to be vaccinated will likely have the chance to do so in the next 6 weeks. Hospitalizations are the lowest they’ve been in a year in many places. The pandemic is no longer “raging” by any metric.

Re: Spring Racing [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]

Mar 14, 21 7:08

Post #22 of 64 (2186 views)

I see what you’re saying but let’s say it’s a choppy swim and they DONT cancel the swim. It’s on YOU to determine your risk tolerance. If you get in a situation you’re not comfortable with that’s your fault. If you don’t want to “get covid weeks before vaccination” then you shouldn’t race. Why can’t the rest of us race though? Why can’t wtc have events after a year?

Re: Spring Racing [triguy86] [ In reply to ]

Mar 14, 21 7:32

Post #23 of 64 (2173 views)

triguy86 wrote:

I see what you’re saying but let’s say it’s a choppy swim and they DONT cancel the swim. It’s on YOU to determine your risk tolerance. If you get in a situation you’re not comfortable with that’s your fault. If you don’t want to “get covid weeks before vaccination” then you shouldn’t race. Why can’t the rest of us race though? Why can’t wtc have events after a year?

Great example, except the Rd’s err on the side of caution with rough water which is a known risk when you sign up for a race.

Frankly, this argument is exasperating. At this point with a little luck it’s not overly optimistic to think that this whole argument, both sides, could be nonsense by August if WE (me-you-everyone) can exercise a modicum of restraint for about 12 weeks. Ultimately, that’s why I am frustrated with the “I’m ok with the risk camp”. Triathletes hobby is essentially suffering, why can’t we be examples to everyone else as to how to be disciplined?

Re: Spring Racing [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]

Mar 14, 21 7:45

Post #24 of 64 (2163 views)

I have been racing 70.3's since October on 2020 in the US. No issues related to any of the races

Just something to consider... Don't rely on the government (or anyone else for that matter) to take care of or protect you. I promise, you will have way less anxiety in your life.

Post deleted by Administrator [ In reply to ]

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Mar 14, 21 8:01

Post #25 of 64 (2157 views)

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