I use Vittoria latex tubes, and haven't had issues other than standard punctures and pinches (probably would have flatted with butyl). I don't think the seam is weak, I think the "ripples" on your tubes don't look right and the failure has something to do with that. The only time I have seen those is after changing a tube when the lever rubs the tube. Have you changed the tire and reused the tube several times?

Just my $0.02

The ripple may be a post failure condition, hard to know for sure. Are the holes patchable?

No, I don't *typically* do that but I think you may be onto something.

Normally I install them new before a race and continue to run them until they fail. This is specifically because the Vittoria latex tubes seem to get stuck to the inside of the tire during use, and I've found that in order to remove them, you kind of have to give them a tug to separate from the tire, the process of detaching them leaves behind the ripple pattern that you see above.

I don't really trust them in their rippled state and normally will toss them even though they still hold air, or at the very least will install new ones before a race.

However, I did have my wheels trued about 2 weeks ago, and on the Flo's this requires removing the tire/tube/rim tape to get to the spoke nipples. So these specific tubes have been removed and re-installed once.

In fact, it's entirely probable that in all 3 cases the tubes may have been removed and reinstalled once before each failure. They definitely were not removed / reinstalled repeatedly, but I'm really starting to think that these Vittoria latex's are no longer trustworthy after a single removal which results in the ripple pattern.

If this is the case, I think this is a pretty big shortcoming for a product and I'm curious if anyone has differing / similar experiences with other brands.

Are you checking to make sure there is no tube between the rim and tire, preferably after partial inflation and before full inflation?

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I use several brands of latex tubes and I haven't had this problem. I often reinstall larger latex tubes for 'cross, but road tubes only rarely. Still, the few times I've pulled a latex road tube to patch it I haven't had any issues.

Were the tubes that blew all from the same batch? Could it be a one off manufacturing problem with the way the seam is sealed?

What rims? (oh... Flo)
Do you use powder? (apparently not...)
Could heat be a factor (ie lots of braking on steep descents)?

Correct, Flo 60s.

No, I don't use powder but that actually is a good point and a question of mine. I know they are kind of powdery when you get them, what additional / replacement powder are you adding? Baby powder? Talcum powder?

Heat could be a factor in contributing to the tubes sticking to the tire in the first place, but all three of these flats were either on cold days / flat roads or the one that was indoors and the bike hadn't even been ridden.

Going back to other posters, installation error is a possibility, but I didn't even install the last round that just failed, LBS did it when they re-trued the wheels. I'm pretty sure the issue is not in how I inflate these.

Based on everyones responses, my current theory is lack of talc / some other friction prevention powder during reinstallation causes the latex to stick to the inside of the tire, maybe during descents or hot days, maybe not. When going to remove a tire, the fact that the tube is stuck to the inner wall of the tire makes the tire lever rub against the tube itself when un-seating the tire bead, weakening the seam in the latex which sporadically fails at a future date.

Talc. Especially since its sticking to the tire so much.

I'd also pay REALLY close attention to your rim tape. The part you circled looks like it may have two spoke hole dimples, one at each end. (It may just be the rippling).

Before inatalling, put the tube in a zip lock bag with a small amount of baby powder or talcum powder. Doesn't need to be a lot. Just enough so the tube isn't tacky. Shake the bag vigorously. Put a little air in the tube to give it shape. Then install the tube. After installing, wipe down your brake track to remove any powder on it.

I coat both the inside of the tire and the tube thoroughly with baby powder.

I've had some Challenge tubes look like yours (wrinkled on the rim side) when I was using veloplugs... some but not all. I now use two layers of Stan's. The tube on the rear is a Challenge that I've been using a long time and the one on the front is a Bontrager. They both look fine.

Installing: Enough pressure for the tube to take shape. Install one tire bead. Put the valve in, then center the opposite side of the tube and put it in the tire next. Then work it around the sides so it's all in and even. Make sure the tube is smooth (no wrinkles) before you put the next tire bead on.

Hope you got her the Plan B pill.

 
Normally when someone has problems with latex tubes flatting, it's because of careless installation. Latex is so elastic, any little bit that gets stuck between the bead and rim will bubble through and then pop. Sometimes it will happen in the middle of the night in your garage, which can be a little freaky. This never happens with butyl tubes because they're less flexible and they just pop bad inside the bead where they belong.

That being said, I know exactly how to mount latex tubes. I quickly gave up on Vittoria latex tubes years ago, because I had 4-5 tubes all fail in exactly the same place. I was convinced it was a manufacturing flaw.

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Dang it you beat me to the witty comment! I was going to say something like, "if it weren't for these spontaneous failures, I wouldn't be alive!"

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MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

Let me guess...the part you circled is opposite the valve stem and is about where you placed a tire iron in there, right? If so, you made those marks/failure when you moved the iron along the bead and the tube stuck to the iron and tore..

Definitely talc the tube to help prevent this. Just throw it in a large ziploc bag and sprinkle in some baby powder, close, and shake. You can also rub some talc on the tire iron end to keep the tube from sticking to it and tearing like that.

Oh, and what do you mean by it being near the seam? There's no seam there. The only seam is near the valve and goes around the tube radially.

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Jens! I had the exact same experience with Vittoria tubes years ago. I gave them another chance recently and they've been good.

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I see that type of track all the time on Michelin and Vred latex tubes but haven't had a failure there. That's not a seam - the only seam is circumferential where the 2 halves of the latex tubular stock are glued together to form the inner tube. I believe that the cause is the latex tube trying to "grow" into the small space between the rim strip and the tire bead. I've had a similar problem with a Mavic Comete clincher disc and a Bonty RXL Pro 23 tire - I only used rim tape at the water drainage holes in the rim. The failures were at the valve stem boot area where it appears the boot was hanging up on the tire beads and the latex "grew" under the boot into the space available due to the lack of rim tape. I reinstalled everything using a think rim strip from an Panaracer polyurethane tube and it is holding air now for ~ 1 week. A solution for you might be doubling up on the rim tape so as to minimize/eliminate the small gap between the bead and tape. Take some measurements to see if the tape will eliminate the gap then install and check for "stretch marks." The Comete rim is deeper than a HED3 clincher rim that I have which does not have the same problem when using a Michelin latex tube - it's been raced several times in the last few years.

Hey,

I noticed that usually those kind of problems were not explained by the latex tube itself but by the tyre. Having said that, 10 bar is quite high and cannot be applied for every tyre. In my experience, Hutchinson is a good tyre if you need something hard and lasts a lot of kilometers but do not accept a such pressure... Continental and Schwalbe can allow in a better way a higher one. I use the Michelin latex tube inside with a Continental GP 4000S. I will try in the future the Zipp tangente then I'll tell you.

Be sure that every thing is clean at first



I also use baby powder as someone said earlier!



I put some powder inside to reduce the chance as much as possible the chance to pinch the tube inside because latex tubes are very fragile. Having said that, if well installed, there's no problem at all in the future. I have never had any problem with mine for every bike I ride.



Do not hesitate to put some powder too on the tube itself and take care not to pinch the tube.



Well, now I can say, in my opinion, that tyres which are very tight and hard to instal are not the best candidates to receive latex tubes inside :/

When installed, you start to inflate. Stop inflating at 1 bar, remove your pump at press the tyre everywhere to be sure there is no twist inside. Hernia can be frequent on latex tubes if you don't take any precaution. Then you pump until your expected pressure and then go to ride under the suuuuuun!

are the 'failures' the round holes that you circled on the photo? Are they on the in- or out side of the tube?

The round holes looks a lot like the pressure of the tube deformed the rim-strip and forced the latex tube down into the spoke hole and over time, the pressure made the tube fail. I've had these kinds of flats one a ENVE wheelset and the solution was better rim tape/rim strip that would withstand the air pressure of the tube.

@ comments about condoms, trust me the thought occurred when selecting the title

@rruff thank you for the feedback. Not supplementing the small amount of powder that comes on the tube new was a definite installation error on my part.

@Tom A. This most recent failure was not directly opposite of the valve stem, but the weak spot still probably was caused by the tire lever during a previous removal. You are correct of course, this appears to not be a true seam, that is located by the valve stem as you said. However, there two thin indentations that span the entire circumference of the tube that I can see even on a new latex tube. I assume these some sort of tooling marks from manufacturing. The latex is ever so slightly thinner in these spots, and this is where both my failures have occured.

@AFM Thank you for someone with your experiencing weighing in. I had this type of failure occur in the past even with a double layer of Stan's yellow tape, but it is possible that the tube was pre-weakened from a previous removal.

@Maarc Thanks for the detailed pictures!

@eigner The picture really makes it look like spoke hole indentations but it's actually not in this case. That's still a fair point to watch out for and possibly a contributing factor, but looking at the leak under water I'm almost positive it was caused by a tire lever.

Holding the tube underwater, there is no single leak. It is a line, about 3/4th of an inch long along that pattern of small ripples, with a very slight leak along nearly the whole line, only a little bit of air leaking from multiple places. There are no visually perceptible holes, it just appears the latex has been weakened/thinned enough along that spot that it is now permeable under pressure.

Yup. That's a tire iron caused failure. Don't ask me how I'm sure of that :-/

I've found that besides puting a light coating of talc on the iron, only using the tire iron to just get the bead started helps a lot to prevent this. Once you have enough space with the bead to put your finger in there (slide the tire iron along the bead VERY carefully to make that space), take the iron out and use your finger instead.

Those circumferential marks shouldn't be on a new tube. I see those marks after the tube has been installed and they are the result of the tube expanding down into the rim bed. It normally doesn't cause any issues.

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I've had many latex tubes (both Challenge and Vittoria) with that type of deformity, that never flatted. These were tubes that were installed, removed, and re-installed several times with new issues (I often race on my training Powertap wheel, so race tires/tubes go on and off of it frequently).

As someone else mentioned, the Vittoria tubes do stick alot, although power (I think it's baby) seems to help. The powder also helps installation. I'm assuming you know to put a little air in the tube and then check both sides of the tire bead, all the way around.

I have popped a few latex tubes, mainly during or just after installation, but after getting my routine down they have been great.

ps I'm also using strapping tape (2-3 layers) for rim tape. Seems to hold up great and a roll will last a lifetime.

-Physiojoe

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-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels

I'm actually very happy to know (and admit) that it was entirely my fault. I was far more anxious about why this kept happening without understanding what was causing it.

Chalk this one up as a lesson learned the hard way, those lessons usually stick quite a bit better.

Every spontaneous latex tube failure I've had was on the rim side. Hard to tell from your pic if this is the case. I would at minimum change the rim tape out from whatever is stock. I hear 2 layers of Stans is the best. Also, get some talc and load the tube up in it before installation. It'll keep it from sticking. Good luck!

I went OTB in a sprint Saturday in a race. I got the bike inside today after enough recovery to inspect it.

Front tire was flat. I saw the exact failure shown in this topic of my latex tube. No powder that I saw. The pattern and tears I saw looked like perhaps either a tire iron or it got stuck in some bad rim tape on the edge where the tire meets. The rim tape wasn't laying flat in that area in a few spots either due to the failure or before the failure.

These were not originally done by myself. We had a local go OTB on a TT bike for this once.

Not trying to Monday morning quarterback this one, but, this could have cost me a lot of bodily harm and a win.

If I was leaning on the bars to sprint and this thing went........maybe, maybe not.

But, the tube looks exactly like this.........but worse.