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Speedgel making you more aero?
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Some Belgian triathletes from ITZU have been testing it, and now the Lotto-Soudal cycling team is doing so in the dauphiné aswel. Any thoughts?

Not many details at the moment, they're still testing it in the windtunnel etc. I only found dutch articles, so this is the only english link to it:
https://www.naqi.com/de/news/41/cycle-quicker-with-new-naqi-speed-gel
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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So its basically sunblock you put on your skin and your are more aero then?

Probably brings up the question how it affects your sweating and with it your temperature, and for Tri also if its water resistant!
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [Ben6] [ In reply to ]
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Ben6 wrote:
So its basically sunblock you put on your skin and your are more aero then?

Probably brings up the question how it affects your sweating and with it your temperature, and for Tri also if its water resistant!

Apparently it contains a cooling liquid aswell, keeping your body temp down.
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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The UCI is trying to decide if this is legal. If it were Sky that introduced it, I am sure it would be legal. Anybody else, not so much.

On a side note Victor Campaerts' (spelling?) fancy aerobars that the UCI seemed to crap on are now available through Ridley. I think the price is around 800$. I don't think they allow them for UCI, but they are available and way cheaper than the 10,000$+ for the 3D printed ones Sky uses.
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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Fusion wrote:
Ben6 wrote:
So its basically sunblock you put on your skin and your are more aero then?

Probably brings up the question how it affects your sweating and with it your temperature, and for Tri also if its water resistant!

Apparently it contains a cooling liquid aswell, keeping your body temp down.

It doesn’t/can’t/won’t keep your body temp down. It “might” cool your skin a wee bit but it’s doing absolutely nothing to your core body temp.

Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:

Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.

Got any data or references to support that assertion?
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.


Got any data or references to support that assertion?


Anything that makes your skin very cold induces vaso-constriction and blood flow shunting, which can actually raise core temperature rather than lowering it.
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
The GMAN wrote:

Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.

Got any data or references to support that assertion?

Dump the ice in the back pockets of the jersey and let it melt. That will help keep you cool. Just dumping it on you won't help a lot because most ends up on the ground, especially any ice, and your body is a huge mass compared to a cup of water.

Physics. It takes 1calorie to heat 1g water by 1degree. It takes 80 calories to melt 1g water. Keep the ice on your body and it can theoretically remove 80+(98.6-33) calories
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.


Got any data or references to support that assertion?

It's not an assertion. Feel free to Google to your heart's content.

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
tttiltheend wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.


Got any data or references to support that assertion?


Dump the ice in the back pockets of the jersey and let it melt. That will help keep you cool. Just dumping it on you won't help a lot because most ends up on the ground, especially any ice, and your body is a huge mass compared to a cup of water.

Physics. It takes 1calorie to heat 1g water by 1degree. It takes 80 calories to melt 1g water. Keep the ice on your body and it can theoretically remove 80+(98.6-33) calories

You would literally need to immerse yourself in an ice bath to move the core temperature needle. A couple square inches of ice applied to a couple square inches of skin doesn't do anything to cool your core. It's pure psychological. I'm not discounting the effect that might have in a placebo kind of way but it still doesn't actually materially do shit.

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
tttiltheend wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.


Got any data or references to support that assertion?


Dump the ice in the back pockets of the jersey and let it melt. That will help keep you cool. Just dumping it on you won't help a lot because most ends up on the ground, especially any ice, and your body is a huge mass compared to a cup of water.

Physics. It takes 1calorie to heat 1g water by 1degree. It takes 80 calories to melt 1g water. Keep the ice on your body and it can theoretically remove 80+(98.6-33) calories


You would literally need to immerse yourself in an ice bath to move the core temperature needle. A couple square inches of ice applied to a couple square inches of skin doesn't do anything to cool your core. It's pure psychological. I'm not discounting the effect that might have in a placebo kind of way but it still doesn't actually materially do shit.

As I often do when reading his stuff, I agree with the GMAN. (*although repeated iced towels over a large portion of the back...if you have access to that sort of thing...)

https://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/...456513000521-gr1.jpg

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S0306456513000521
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.

I'd like to challenge your "ice water doesn't do nothing".

In dry and hot conditions, melting ice water held in contact with skin by clothing/fabric does provide evaporative cooling effects.
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.

I'd like to challenge your "ice water doesn't do nothing".

In dry and hot conditions, melting ice water held in contact with skin by clothing/fabric does provide evaporative cooling effects.

That’s great and all but still doesn’t lower your core body temp. I’m not sure how many ways I can express this very simple concept.

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Fusion and All,

http://www.velonews.com/...e-dauphine-tt_468897

UCI bans Speed Gel after Lotto-Soudal’s use in Dauphiné TT



Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:
Anything that makes your skin very cold induces vaso-constriction and blood flow shunting, which can actually raise core temperature rather than lowering it.

This phenomena confused the hell out of me when I was trainer-riding outside in winter.
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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So is this chart saying that pretty much everything they tried made the core hotter?


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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
windschatten wrote:
The GMAN wrote:

Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.


I'd like to challenge your "ice water doesn't do nothing".

In dry and hot conditions, melting ice water held in contact with skin by clothing/fabric does provide evaporative cooling effects.


That’s great and all but still doesn’t lower your core body temp. I’m not sure how many ways I can express this very simple concept.

That you think this is a simple concept is where you falter.

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
So is this chart saying that pretty much everything they tried made the core hotter?


I interpret it as:
In this study, this is the stuff they did and see what happens to core temp. These types of things do not reliably change the core temp at all. This was just to be used as an example that very cold things like ice cubes placed on the body for short periods of time do not change core temp much at all. It has to do with surface area/physics etc. Even hand/forearm immersion is not enough to change it much and palm cooling appears useless.

I know iced towels/cooling blankets work, as we use them in the hospital. I know cold immersion works as it is a treatment for heat stroke.

How much evaporation you get or conductive cooling with cold water during a hot triathlon? Questionable there is any significant relief. Although, I do believe that even helping for 5 seconds can help your brain believe that you are feeling a bit better. But, that is an opinion only...
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
Fusion wrote:
Ben6 wrote:
So its basically sunblock you put on your skin and your are more aero then?

Probably brings up the question how it affects your sweating and with it your temperature, and for Tri also if its water resistant!


Apparently it contains a cooling liquid aswell, keeping your body temp down.


It doesn’t/can’t/won’t keep your body temp down. It “might” cool your skin a wee bit but it’s doing absolutely nothing to your core body temp.

Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.

This whole thread has totally bummed me out on this sweet cooling hat I was planning to buy.



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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Hello rruff and All,



I think the chart above is doing it wrong .... 10 minutes for bodily core cooling is inadequate and 10 C (50 F) is inadequate temperature.

In the example below a colder temp and a longer exposure gets the job done.

Try full body immersion at 0 C (32F) for 35 minutes.





If you have a choice it is a better practice to ingest the coolant ... and crushed ice is better than cold water.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S2095254615001258

Conclusion

Crushed ice ingestion before and during exercise in a hot environment may be a preferred and effective approach for minimizing thermal strain, and for improving endurance performance as compared with cold water ingestion.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
Last edited by: nealhe: Jun 13, 18 15:49
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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T-wrecks wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
Fusion wrote:
Ben6 wrote:
So its basically sunblock you put on your skin and your are more aero then?

Probably brings up the question how it affects your sweating and with it your temperature, and for Tri also if its water resistant!


Apparently it contains a cooling liquid aswell, keeping your body temp down.


It doesn’t/can’t/won’t keep your body temp down. It “might” cool your skin a wee bit but it’s doing absolutely nothing to your core body temp.

Same can be said for dumping ice and water on yourself during hot races. It does fuck all to actually cool you down. It just feels better for about 5 seconds and makes you wet. That’s pretty much it.


This whole thread has totally bummed me out on this sweet cooling hat I was planning to buy.


I loved him in 300.



2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Speedgel making you more aero? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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This one probably doesn't work either...but it does look cool, just like the Nike one.




FEATURES
  • Long lasting cold therapy
  • Adjustable neoprene hood with pony tail channel
  • UltraCool™ fabric
  • Insulating neoprene shell
  • Cold packs and insulated travel bag inluded



But this one...probably does work. Doubt it'll be very comfortable and stopping for ice will surely impact any time goal.


Or, overheated runners could just stop and dip in ice baths along the course, if provided*. I wonder if that would be banned too.
Last edited by: dtoce: Jun 13, 18 15:58
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