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Speed Concept too heavy
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I have a SC 9.9 in XL w mono plug-in adaptor and 51 speed shop extensions, non- UCI base bar, Adamo saddle. I bought a scale to get comparable weights on my 2013 P3 and the SC. The SC weighs about 1.75 lbs more. Part of that is electronic vs. mechanical, but mostly it’s just heavier. I have struggled with the SC and I do many courses with substantial climbing. Any suggestions on how to lighten up the SC? My fitter (nationally reputable) says my coordinates require the XL. Any suggestions welcome.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Well, the stem, extensions, etc. aren't the sources of weight so there's not much we can tell you with this information. The SC is light for a fully integrated bike. Integration is what is adding a lot of this weight compared to your Cervelo.

I can tell you that your Adamo saddle is likely 290-350g depending on the model. So something like a Fizik Transiro would save you 0.2 to 0.3 lbs. A stock Dash saddle would save another 0.1 lb.

What wheels are you using? Something like a Flo 60 set weighs 1750g while a Rolf wheel of the same depth weighs 1400g, saving you 0.7 to 0.8 lbs.

What group set are you using? Electronic vs mechanical shouldn't make that much of a difference but the difference between ultegra and Red could be 0.5 to 0.7 lbs.

There are many opportunities to be a weight weenie:
- Cassettes: Rotor is 0.1 lb lighter than Red/Dura-Ace
- Shoes
- Skewers
- Pedals
- Helmet
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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1.75lbs (0.8kg). Given that's less than 1% of the all-up weight of bike + rider + fluids + any tools/spares, I'd question whether that's the real cause of a problem.
Even for a constant uphill ride for 5 hrs, that's a 3 minute difference.

Maybe something else going on ?
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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Very good point. I’ve been finding that in practice it’s enough to make a difference. Regular climbs where I can’t stay in the saddle vs. the P3 where I could. I’m more powerful as well, which is frustrating. I noticed early on that the bike felt sluggish, times when I felt I was dragging a parachute. Not sure what the answer is given my fit is pretty good.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for these ideas. I weighed both without wheels. I ride Enve 6.7 and use a Super 9 disc racing. I would like to try a Dash saddle; I have a position with arms angled up a bit. My saddle is the PN1.0 25, very comfortable for me. I have Di2 52/36 w Dura Ace cranks and rings. I use the UCI rear brake cover for ease and race 70.3 and full w the speed box. No bento. Normally one bottle behind saddle, one between extensions, and one on down tube if needed.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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i ride the same bike.

1.75 lbs is making very little to no time difference vs a P3. research that yourself so you believe it.

skip a few deserts, weight on the run is more important.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Danmelbre wrote:
Very good point. I’ve been finding that in practice it’s enough to make a difference.

I'd say it's very likely that something else is making the difference, and you're misattributing it all to weight.

As noted above, for a given speed up a hill, the weight penalty is creating maybe a ~1% difference in required torque. That's only one quarter of the difference between a 25-tooth big cog and a 26-tooth big cog, definitely not something that'll stand out that much.

If the issue is that you're bottoming out your gearing and being forced to stand, the first thing I'd check is that you're appropriately-geared for the riding that you're doing. "Appropriately geared" means that you're able to keep your torque and cadence reasonable per what your legs want, not that you simply didn't have to get off and walk. Plenty of people insist "my gearing is fine" as they climb at 40rpm, even when it's costing them rapid fatigue and a 15% loss in wattage.

What chainrings and cassette are your SC using? What chainrings and cassette did you use on the old bike?
Last edited by: HTupolev: Apr 13, 19 13:09
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Danmelbre wrote:
Very good point. I’ve been finding that in practice it’s enough to make a difference. Regular climbs where I can’t stay in the saddle vs. the P3 where I could. I’m more powerful as well, which is frustrating. I noticed early on that the bike felt sluggish, times when I felt I was dragging a parachute. Not sure what the answer is given my fit is pretty good.

Same gearing and wheels/tires? The only difference is the SC frame/integrated components? For example I train Aeolus 4xxx's but race on 9's. It's a small penalty on climbs but faster everywhere else.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of the heaviest things on a bike that can make the biggest weight difference are the base bar and crankset. You cannot change the SC base bar. But, what base bar do you have on the P3, and what cranksets do you have on both?
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [HTupolev] [ In reply to ]
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P3 has Rotor NoQ 52/36, 172.5 Rotor cranks, and Dura Ace 11-28. SC Dura Ace 52/36, 170 cranks and 11-28. FTP is ~290 for what that's worth. I'm getting too much anecdotal feedback for it to be all mental. Maybe it's just the way it handles and feels, though again I do regular climbs and there is a diff.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Danmelbre wrote:
P3 has Rotor NoQ 52/36, 172.5 Rotor cranks, and Dura Ace 11-28. SC Dura Ace 52/36, 170 cranks and 11-28. FTP is ~290 for what that's worth. I'm getting too much anecdotal feedback for it to be all mental. Maybe it's just the way it handles and feels, though again I do regular climbs and there is a diff.

Are you standing up more because you're running out of gears, or because your legs just want to use a standing form?

Different bikes can pedal differently from each other. Partly fit, partly how the bike flexes.
Last edited by: HTupolev: Apr 13, 19 13:55
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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base bar on P3 3T Aura Pro with 3T extensions. I should mention the P3 is a size 58. On paper it fell roughly between the L and XL SC. I pushed for L as it seems most would size down if they could, but again was told XL gave me more flexibility going forward. The P3 was retired to my trainer because I hit a curb training on the Whistler course and cracked the head tube. Still did the race a month later on it, against plenty of mechanic advice, and got a top 3 bike (top run to win my AG).

Thanks all for your thoughts on this.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [HTupolev] [ In reply to ]
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I like to climb both seated and standing, but prob more so seated. On the SC I'm "forced" to stand on some climbs because my cadence would drop a lot and I'd torch my legs. I've found I can climb out of the saddle for several minutes and recover, though I really don't like to and it's not ideal for tri racing. With a 36 ring and 28 cog, I don't see how I need easier gearing. If so, I just need to keep working on getting stronger.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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The SC was my dream bike. I lusted after it, and was able to buy the bike once it available in the 7.5 second gen. It was a rocket, as long as it was moving in a straight line void of hills. I had a specialized transition beforehand. I actually missed it. I finally sold it, mostly because I was done with tri. Sexy bike but not easy to handle on hills and curves.

Just my 2 cents
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Out of curiosity, what does each bike weigh? I recently stripped my bike down. I’m only riding with one bottle up front (30oz). I’ll just stop and refill rather than carrying another bottle behind the seat. I also had an xlab cloth bento on my top tube. I was just carrying shit around for really no purpose. One tube, one inflator, one cartridge, one set of plastic tire levers, one Clif Bar. Some triathletes approach a training ride like they’re riding cross country. Loaded down to the gills. All the weight makes a difference and it adds up. Components can weigh a lot. You’re running Dura Ace so no weight penalty. There’s at least 0.5-1 lb between Ultegra and old 105. New 105 is pretty even.

I have a feeling the SC is just heavy. My next ride will be a Canyon Speedmax 7.0 in 2020. It’ll probably come in around 18.5 lbs in a small with my Flo 60’s and the new 105. That’s about 2lbs less than my current bike.

I lost 22lbs this offseason and my climbing is better than ever even early in the season. Losing weight helps if you’re tackling a lot of elevation.

Danmelbre wrote:
I have a SC 9.9 in XL w mono plug-in adaptor and 51 speed shop extensions, non- UCI base bar, Adamo saddle. I bought a scale to get comparable weights on my 2013 P3 and the SC. The SC weighs about 1.75 lbs more. Part of that is electronic vs. mechanical, but mostly it’s just heavier. I have struggled with the SC and I do many courses with substantial climbing. Any suggestions on how to lighten up the SC? My fitter (nationally reputable) says my coordinates require the XL. Any suggestions welcome.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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All of my fastest TT's were on a bike that weighed 21.5 lb.
This included time trials with significant climbing including a 10 minute mostly hillclimb.

I am not going to say that my bike was the fastest bike ever made. It was not. But me and that bike got on well.
Went through a pile of other sexier and lighter bikes- I was slower on all of them.

My point is that there is likely something with the SC that does not suit you- Get rid of it and get something else.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Danmelbre wrote:
I have a SC 9.9 in XL w mono plug-in adaptor and 51 speed shop extensions, non- UCI base bar, Adamo saddle. I bought a scale to get comparable weights on my 2013 P3 and the SC. The SC weighs about 1.75 lbs more. Part of that is electronic vs. mechanical, but mostly it’s just heavier. I have struggled with the SC and I do many courses with substantial climbing. Any suggestions on how to lighten up the SC? My fitter (nationally reputable) says my coordinates require the XL. Any suggestions welcome.

You can lose half a pound by getting a carbon fiber mono pad. Depending on what cranks and chainrings you have you can probably easily lose weight there. A final place to shave weight would be your cassette. The SRAM mono block 11 speed cassettes are pretty darn light. Between those three items I guarantee you can shave 1.75 pounds if not more.

However, as the others said, weight definitely isn't your problem. The Speed Concept is a very fast bike and, give that you're riding an XL, I'm going to assume that you weigh at least 155lbs. 1.75lbs is nothing in the scope of bike + rider + nutrition.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Super bikes are just heavier than their predecessors. If you think the 1.75 pound is the deal breaker, you could try dropping that amount in body weight.

Human Person
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a 600 series SC and I can't get in tune with it. Call me crazy but I feel like I am stomping in concrete with shit form vs running on a track in perfect form. My old bike was a Falco V and I felt in tune with it. I am putting out more power on the SC and going slower. I hope I just need to ride it more to find that rhythm. Maybe the same for you?
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [mwanner13] [ In reply to ]
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22 lbs!! I’ll bet your climbing is much better. Congratulations on that and keep riding, be healthy.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the ideas. Could you elaborate on what you mean by cf mono pad? The front end, especially with the adaptor, seems to be a big reason for weight. Too much s@#€ going on.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Congratulations on the KQ at Whistler.

With the weight being nearly negligible, I would start to look at the differences between the bikes for a possible answer.

How similar are the fit measurements for your P3 and SC? Same saddle height, seat setback, reach, etc.

Are you on the same saddle for both?

If you find a difference, that might explain your climbing out of the saddle and you can use that for adjusting your SC or getting a bike that can meet those fit coordinates.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you! My climbing on my 20.5lb 2013 Argon 18 E112 is way, way better. I’m taking KOM’s and #2 on climbs this spring. That just wasn’t happening before. It feels weird because the climbs are still hard and I don’t feel lighter on my bike, I’m just going up faster. I’m still adjusting because I’ve only done about 8 outdoor rides since coming off the trainer.

Danmelbre wrote:
22 lbs!! I’ll bet your climbing is much better. Congratulations on that and keep riding, be healthy.
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Danmelbre wrote:
Thanks for the ideas. Could you elaborate on what you mean by cf mono pad? The front end, especially with the adaptor, seems to be a big reason for weight. Too much s@#€ going on.

Way back when I weighed all the frame/stuff on my P5. Frame only was 1650 and that was with stainless steel internal cable routing (they don’t do that any more) I find it hard to believe the SC would be much heavier.

Aura pro with a stem would be around 1kg, I really don’t think that the sc bar system is 1900 grams.

I think you’re missing something...take some pics of both set ups.

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: Speed Concept too heavy [Danmelbre] [ In reply to ]
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Danmelbre wrote:
I I have struggled with the SC and I do many courses with substantial climbing. Any suggestions on how to lighten up? Any suggestions welcome.

Lose some rider weight
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