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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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It worked out really well for Mr. Rapp!

Toro Performance
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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teddygram wrote:
GatorRacer wrote:
Sbernardi wrote:
^ This. Stainless steel bolts. If you ever see the pros bikes, they all have stainless. I’m not sure why Trek never addressed this


I Do not know what grade the bolt Trek provides with their bike, but in general Stainless bolts can NOT be assumed to be stronger than a black oxide (typical hardware store fastener). ACE Hardware in the like usually are 8.8,10.9, or 12.9 bolts...this guarantees a proof strength. Stainless Steel fasteners are not always handled this same way.

Yes their corrosion resistance is superior but the strength may not always be so! YMMV

Hi GatorRacer,

I am not sure if this was also in response to what I posted/listed - just so it is known or said again the bolts are custom 450 stainless steel with a 180KSI strength. The same grade material is used as fasteners for highly modified racing engines.

I wasnt calling into question your material selection, but just the Blanket declaration that stainless is stronger is not true, therefore the other posters recommendation was misleading.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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Hi All,
I originally posted in the Official Speed Concept thread about my bolts shearing; 6 times in the 1.5 years I'd had the bike. After working with Trek directly, we replaced a few parts in the front end but I never felt completely secure about riding my Trek down steep hills or very rough roads. I am surrounded by rough chipseal roads where I live so it was important to me to get this bolt thing sorted out. I have been using teddygram's bolts for about 6 weeks and they are perfectly intact. I ride the same rough roads on every single ride, and so far, the bolts are performing perfectly. As mentioned, I had gone through 6 sets of them prior to this so not having a set shear in one month is a good sign so far.
Nicole
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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I would absolutely buy a couple of pairs of these from you! I have replaced every bolt in the cockpit of my SC (and my wife's) except for these! And that's only because I can't find them in stainless steel. These would be perfect!

As a side question (to the group): Why doesn't Trek use stainless steel bolts? Especially for the cockpits. Mine became rusted within the first month of use, and besides looking like crap there has to be some degradation there I would assume. They could at least offer a "bolt kit" in stainless as an aftermarket.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [sommer] [ In reply to ]
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sommer wrote:
I would absolutely buy a couple of pairs of these from you! I have replaced every bolt in the cockpit of my SC (and my wife's) except for these! And that's only because I can't find them in stainless steel. These would be perfect!

As a side question (to the group): Why doesn't Trek use stainless steel bolts? Especially for the cockpits. Mine became rusted within the first month of use, and besides looking like crap there has to be some degradation there I would assume. They could at least offer a "bolt kit" in stainless as an aftermarket.


Sommer,

Thank you for your reply!

The bolts are still in the works, I had no idea there was a demand like this.

In regards to your other question GatorRacer talked appropriately about this earlier in the thread - a standard stainless bolt (or the stainless material they would "purchase") would not be ideal for the load/unload factor these bolts are working against. Trek looks at this as any manufacture would - what works and whats cheapest.

That is why the bolts I mentioned are not only a custom 450 stainless but also require machine work and other treatments.
Last edited by: teddygram: Apr 11, 18 11:57
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [NinTX] [ In reply to ]
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NinTX wrote:
Hi All,
I originally posted in the Official Speed Concept thread about my bolts shearing; 6 times in the 1.5 years I'd had the bike. After working with Trek directly, we replaced a few parts in the front end but I never felt completely secure about riding my Trek down steep hills or very rough roads. I am surrounded by rough chipseal roads where I live so it was important to me to get this bolt thing sorted out. I have been using teddygram's bolts for about 6 weeks and they are perfectly intact. I ride the same rough roads on every single ride, and so far, the bolts are performing perfectly. As mentioned, I had gone through 6 sets of them prior to this so not having a set shear in one month is a good sign so far.
Nicole


Nicole,

Thank you very much for your response in this thread and I hope to continue to hear that your confidence is regained in the bike!

I want to say congratulations again on your podium finish this past weekend!
Last edited by: teddygram: Apr 11, 18 11:57
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [atb] [ In reply to ]
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Has happened to me 3 times in last 2 years. Pain in ass. I admit I am an "oversized" rider; but this seems to be a design flaw. They need to use stainless steel bolts and also make it so that the forces on the aerobars and forearm rests are not all relying on 2 bolts. The shearing forces have to be huge at that point on the bike.
It is insanely inconvenient to have to deal with this on such an expensive bike.
Side note, I have also had problems with shearing of Di2 cables twice on the speed concept on my bike and once on my wifes. Again, seems like design flaws.

I do not think I will be purchasing any more Trek bikes for triathlon.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [dctrgme] [ In reply to ]
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dctrgme wrote:
Has happened to me 3 times in last 2 years. Pain in ass. I admit I am an "oversized" rider; but this seems to be a design flaw. They need to use stainless steel bolts and also make it so that the forces on the aerobars and forearm rests are not all relying on 2 bolts. The shearing forces have to be huge at that point on the bike.
It is insanely inconvenient to have to deal with this on such an expensive bike.
Side note, I have also had problems with shearing of Di2 cables twice on the speed concept on my bike and once on my wifes. Again, seems like design flaws.

I do not think I will be purchasing any more Trek bikes for triathlon.

How are you tightening down the bolts? Are you tightening them down one at a time? If you are, this will only put more stress on the bolt you tighten first. You have to tighten them down incrementally so both of the bolts share the load.

Please explain how shearing of di2 wires is a design flaw?

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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1 .I never tighten the bolts on my own. All adjustments to that area of my bike are from LBS.
2. The 3 times Di2 wires have sheared, twice on my bike, once on wife were not from accidents and on bikes less than 2 years old. I assume this is not an expected problem. If it is, then i think Di2 wiring needs a fix... that being said, i believe all 3 times the shearing occurred in the gap between the top tube and the stem. The wires run through there and appear to rub/stretch when the cockpit is turned. Of course, I am under the assumption that my LBS assembled both bikes properly.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [dctrgme] [ In reply to ]
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dctrgme wrote:
1 .I never tighten the bolts on my own. All adjustments to that area of my bike are from LBS.
2. The 3 times Di2 wires have sheared, twice on my bike, once on wife were not from accidents and on bikes less than 2 years old. I assume this is not an expected problem. If it is, then i think Di2 wiring needs a fix... that being said, i believe all 3 times the shearing occurred in the gap between the top tube and the stem. The wires run through there and appear to rub/stretch when the cockpit is turned. Of course, I am under the assumption that my LBS assembled both bikes properly.

Both issues are a result of your LBS not knowing what they are doing.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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I am with you I put 4 years with max upward tilt on my bars and no issues. Interesting enough I just had the bars all switched to a new frame and LBS asked if I wanted to re-use the original bolts! I said no but he did say once they cleaned them they looked fine. I have over the years had bolts become loose and have learned to tighten them how SteveJ mentioned, I also slightly over tighten.

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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [atb] [ In reply to ]
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As per others in this thread my mono bar keeps coming loose. Let me down badly in a race today. I set it up as per the tips in this thread and compliant with the user manual but it still failed. I'm going to try some loctite but if that doesn't work its looking like a expensive waste of money
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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Please elaborate what happened.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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The bar was in place and solid before the start of the race, it had been on the trainer in its current position for about 3 hours worth of sessions. The bike is new, after a few hours on the trainer it came loose, I repositioned it to adjust fit, then re tightened into its current position. How I did this was...

Positioned two metal 'cups' under the riser, in their positions, put monobar in place with the screws and the piece of metal that the monobar screws sit in. Incrementaly tighten front and back bolt while keeping an eye on rear set screw. Tighten front and back bolt incrementally to spec then tighten rear set screw to rest on riser. I have about 10 degrees of tilt.

In the race it started off fine. Then when on the base bar I heard some rattling, then back on extensions there was a little forward and back ward play. This play increased over a few minutes until I stopped and soft pedalled back to transition.

If there's anything I've done wrong there do let me know. I'm keen to get to the bottom of this one way or another
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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Have you posted to the official SC thread?
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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davidwilcock wrote:
The bar was in place and solid before the start of the race, it had been on the trainer in its current position for about 3 hours worth of sessions. The bike is new, after a few hours on the trainer it came loose, I repositioned it to adjust fit, then re tightened into its current position. How I did this was...

Positioned two metal 'cups' under the riser, in their positions, put monobar in place with the screws and the piece of metal that the monobar screws sit in. Incrementaly tighten front and back bolt while keeping an eye on rear set screw. Tighten front and back bolt incrementally to spec then tighten rear set screw to rest on riser. I have about 10 degrees of tilt.

In the race it started off fine. Then when on the base bar I heard some rattling, then back on extensions there was a little forward and back ward play. This play increased over a few minutes until I stopped and soft pedalled back to transition.

If there's anything I've done wrong there do let me know. I'm keen to get to the bottom of this one way or another

There is quite some controversy over how the proper way to install this assembly. Do you have a picture of how much angle you are running the mono extension bar that you could post?
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [dctrgme] [ In reply to ]
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They probably did not route the cables above the plastic clips in the cap. That’s why it’s there. To keep the wires and cables in line.

Either that or they are WAYYYYY too long and all bunched up inside there.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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Hi,

This is the bar with the max tilt I have on it, it's a very limited amount of tilt.

https://ibb.co/G2nh1gW
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting....I'm going to run that setup at Max tilt. Hopefully close to 20°
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I don't feel like I'm pushing the limits. Hope it works out for you. Let me know after you've used it for a while
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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That's not max tilt. You can adjust that set screw to allow you to tilt the assembly up more.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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davidwilcock wrote:
The bar was in place and solid before the start of the race, it had been on the trainer in its current position for about 3 hours worth of sessions. The bike is new, after a few hours on the trainer it came loose, I repositioned it to adjust fit, then re tightened into its current position. How I did this was...

Positioned two metal 'cups' under the riser, in their positions, put monobar in place with the screws and the piece of metal that the monobar screws sit in. Incrementaly tighten front and back bolt while keeping an eye on rear set screw. Tighten front and back bolt incrementally to spec then tighten rear set screw to rest on riser. I have about 10 degrees of tilt.

In the race it started off fine. Then when on the base bar I heard some rattling, then back on extensions there was a little forward and back ward play. This play increased over a few minutes until I stopped and soft pedalled back to transition.

If there's anything I've done wrong there do let me know. I'm keen to get to the bottom of this one way or another

Did you use a torque wrench.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I wasn't clear, that's the most I have had it tilted. Not the actual max tilt of the bar.

I have used a torque wrench, but I'm not convinced of its accuracy, it seems too loose. I have tightened it tighter as an experiment and this was this time where it came loose. I'm turning to loctite next as a possible solution, but happy to hear other ideas
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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Try to find and use a beam wrench. They're cheap, reliable, and very consistently accurate. Note that if you use loctite you'll actually be lubricating the bolt and thus you'll need to reduce your torque value (I forget whether or not Trek does so from the factory). IIRC the torque value for those bolts is 5NM, you'll probably want to back that down to 4NM as per Loctite's own "20%" reduction recommendation vs dry bolts.
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Re: Speed Concept Aerobar failures [davidwilcock] [ In reply to ]
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David this is nothing to fool around with partcularly if you are not confident of your TW readings. A number of people have been injured over the years from an incorrect set-up on this key part of the cockpit. Too bad Carl is not still around to help out. Page 20 from the Trek Service Manual lists the torque spec for the 2 bolts at 6-8Nm. The key thing is to follow the manual to the letter for install. You tighten the 2 bolts to spec and then tighten the set screw to make contact with the mono-spacer. The greatest danger is folks not tightening the set screw to make contact with the mono-spacer and having one of the 2 bolts break suddenly on a bump resulting in a serious crash. I would urge you to go to a qualified Trek mechanic to have it set-up properly and make sure everything is as it should be. There is no mention in the manual about the need for any threadlocker on the 2 bolts.
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