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So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this
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Okay I have my own beef for the large number of athletes starting at these races but mostly with the swim and 2 loop courses and the bottlenecks in the transition but I'm about to show you
at least from my viewpoint that you can't use this as an excuse for drafting... Yes the larger field does make the marshals job a bit harder to do but it doesn't pull us helplessly into pack riding.

Some have said given the number of athletes starting at ironman florida that its impossible to not draft especially early on.
The other videos I posted are at mile 34 was that not enough to spread things out?
Another poster stated
"280 swimmers exited the water between 1:05 and 1:10. They could, theoretically, ride legal. From 1:10 to 1:15 there were 405 swimmers exit, then 368, 306 and 277 in successive 5 minute segments"

Okay but thats not when they hit the road you have to add in transition times.. Guess what that changes things quite a bit.
the wetsuit strip,long narrow run path up to and then through a narrow tunnel,grabbing bags,then running a pretty long again narrow path to change building,various changing times
then another narrow path to the end of the bike rack and the t1 exit path all make for a built in valve to squish things almost into a single file and lower the arrival rate.
Now 1:22 to 1:27 becomes the largest 5 minute strecth with 322 leaving t1 with previous 5 and next 5 under 300 which "theoretiically" all could ride legal if going 20 mph instantly or a second
to go 7 o 8 meters..starting at least a second apart. but in real world varying speeds and such its even easier than that.
Lets not get tied to exact calculations though I'm about to show you my exit and first 56 minutes collapsed into 7 minutes(8 times speed).
Its from my rear camera.. I wish my front aero had worked then but it locked up on me and I didn't catch it until about 12 miles I think into the ride(I have video of me fooling with it with the right camera after I realized the left one froze and I had to turn the right one on). I had to take battery out put back in.

The quality is bit off because it was pointing toward the sun which appears as a black dot with a bit glare around it. BUT if you look close freeze it every once in a while you will see
that there was indeed plenty of room out there once I got past the first quarter to half mile and settled in.. Its equiv of going almost 180 mph I guess. I was averageing 22.4 I think for first 25 miles(until the turn on 20) so I'm passing a lot of bikes and a few pass me but you can see theres not really a bottle neck and NO EXCUSE none of this.. I COULDN'T Help drafting because too many people in the race..

Heres the video...I have another 7 minute section after that as well as some of my front camera once I got it started may post that later. I still have some other packs on out and back and 388 new paved section I hope to post when I get a chance. This highspeed conversion ate up alot of my disk space and video was taking 20 minutes to create so its going slow plus I wanted to get out and ride today with weather so nice today.
By the way the sound is just sound of my rear disk wheel on the ground. The camera is in a water proof case so sound is muffled. sped up 8 times sounds like a motorcycle but its not.
I ride a titan-flex so there is no seat tube or triangle to the rear wheel so you just see the wheel and bottom of my water bottles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv-nRg-Hd70
front view 4:44 into rear view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDpByk7yHiA

and here is the distribution at t1 exit by one minute time intervals... I removed the pros which shouldn't matter much since they started 10 minutes early.
Cut it off at 1:40 I have more but after this its not even close. I took the swim times then added in transition times then ran frequency function in excel (with 60 second intervals).
t1 exit number out in previous minute interval.
0:56 0 0:57 2 0:58 0 0:59 1 1:00 3 1:01 7 1:02 5 1:03 6 1:04 12 1:05 16 1:06 13 1:07 19 1:08 24 1:09 27 1:10 38 1:11 33 1:12 38 1:13 38 1:14 45 1:15 54 1:16 50 1:17 38 1:18 63 1:19 47 1:20 53 1:21 48 1:22 65 1:23 69 1:24 63 1:25 61 1:26 64 1:27 61 1:28 62 1:29 68 1:30 49 1:31 57 1:32 49 1:33 49 1:34 51 1:35 52 1:36 55 1:37 49 1:38 39 1:39 48 1:40 42



Last edited by: gholmes: Nov 15, 09 10:11
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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I agree, while the field might be on the large side, it does not mean you "HAVE TO" draft. Many people willingly choose to do draft, while only a few get actually caught up in a situation.
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Dude. It's no wonder you ride so fast with that motor you have on your bike.

------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [logella] [ In reply to ]
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i like how @ 3:00 into the vid the guy actually trys and drafts you but i like how you drop him too. good riding!

It's not about the bike, it's just along for the ride.
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [roadhouse] [ In reply to ]
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the way you ride reminds me of how Big Lance took Ulrich, even passing him in the TT in the Tours. which one? all of 'em!! ;)

again, superb riding skills! i'm in awe at how many you left behind.

It's not about the bike, it's just along for the ride.
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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That is very cool. YOu are a fast biker. Work on your swim!!
What is the Whirring sound ???
Thanks for posting!!
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Too bad we can't see who is doing the pulling for you the whole time.

-Jot
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [mkr3j] [ In reply to ]
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That is awesome. No one ever "has to draft" in IMF!!! I have done 2x and found it easy to drop back.
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [logella] [ In reply to ]
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x2 on the motor

If you wanted to ride legal you could...
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [mkr3j] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
That is very cool. YOu are a fast biker. Work on your swim!!
What is the Whirring sound ???
Thanks for posting!!
swim has never been my strong point but I dislocated my shoulder back in april still affects my swimming.
whirring sound is sped up sound from the disk wheel on pavement (camera is in a waterproof case dulls the sound).
Last edited by: gholmes: Nov 15, 09 9:04
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [roadhouse] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
the way you ride reminds me of how Big Lance took Ulrich, even passing him in the TT in the Tours. which one? all of 'em!! ;)

again, superb riding skills! i'm in awe at how many you left behind.
that all ended when I hit the right turn east and the head wind. Pushed too much but I figured what the heck give it a shot I knew my run was going to be off anyway due to injuries and i've done enough of these decided to just go for it. Did a quick calculation I passed 250 plus in the transition area. I got passed a lot later(especially at mile 34 where the pack in the other videos passed me)
on that 25 mile stretch into the wind.
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gamebofh] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Too bad we can't see who is doing the pulling for you the whole time.

-Jot
Yea right.. always a troll out there..
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Oh come on...I put it in pink. I'm a lot of things, but a troll isn't one of them.

-Jot
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Cool video to watch. Thanks for posting that. Sure wish I passed that many people on the bike.

What was your swim time? I usually come out of the water at about 1:10 at IMC and think that the course is more crowded in the first 60 km than your video indicates that IMF is.

And not to get into it or anything but i read Gamebofh's comment as a joke only and not intended as any implied criticism or serious suggestion that you were drafting.

Grant

Last edited by: Forsler: Nov 15, 09 9:37
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [Forsler] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Cool video to watch. Thanks for posting that. Sure wish I passed that many people on the bike.

What was your swim time? I usually come out of the water at about 1:10 at IMC and think that the course is more crowded in the first 60 km than your video indicates that IMF is.

And not to get into it or anything but i read Gamebofh's comment as a joke only and not intended as any implied criticism or serious suggestion that you were drafting.
swim was 1:19 I hit the bike at 1:26 and change rough water slower swimmer and shoulder problem.
Heres front view starting 4:44 into the rear video time about 13 miles into the ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDpByk7yHiA
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gamebofh] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Oh come on...I put it in pink. I'm a lot of things, but a troll isn't one of them.

-Jot
sorry my screen is black and white(old school) just kidding I wondered what the pink was all about.. I've gotten a few lots worse than that.
But just in case heres front view which started 4:44 into the rear view(roughly 37 minutes using the 8x speed and 13 to 14 miles into the race just in case...
I get passed a few times here while fiddling with the frozen camera afterturning on the second camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDpByk7yHiA
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Best video yet. This is like deja vu from what I experienced. Do you have more front video for the rest of the ride?


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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [p2k2001] [ In reply to ]
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That is a great video and really shows the IMFL bike. You look quick on that bike!
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Fantastic-- you clearly had a CLEAN RACE
Can you post a photo of the bike and video setup
I get dizzy watching the race at 800times speed!!

Mark
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [mkr3j] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Fantastic-- you clearly had a CLEAN RACE
Can you post a photo of the bike and video setup
I get dizzy watching the race at 800times speed!!

Mark
Actually I wasn't trying to point out I had a clean race was trying to point out that the road was not full of bikes even early on. Some are arguing that the large field
and the frequency of swimmers coming out made it impossible not to draft..NOT so at least where I came out and when I figured the new distribution with transition times the 5 minutes around when I came out was one of the highest so if that was clean then pretty much was all the way.. I believe around the minute I came out there were 61 and there were a few minutes with 68 and 69
scattered in there the average for that 5 minute period was 63.5
Well I added in all the transition times which shifted the arrival rate of the athletes to the road
and actually all that buffering with the narrow run lanes,changing and so on made that rate less of a problem.. then the video you can clearly see once I get past the first quarter mile or so
its pretty wide open. Yes I passed a lot I'm relatively slower swimmer compared to my bike ability. I also passed 270 in the transition.
also we had a great tail wind that first 5 miles and I just took advantage of it then pushed up 79 to the turn where all the fun ended with the head wind.
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Enjoyed watching the split view footage, but the 8x speed rear, and now front footage, with that great carbon disc rumble soundtrack, even better, thanks.

As I was watching the 8x speed footage, with your disc rumbling away and your adherence to the white line, couldn't help but think of Goose on his Kwaka in Mad Max, and then Max himself in the opening scenes of the Road Warrior ("a white line nightmare...") Nice work! (for both camera, AND swim, bike, run on the day).

I'll be honest, all the talk of Florida and drafting on flat courses had me dismissing the race as one I would never want to do, but seeing your footage off the open road, with you rumbling down the highway, it made me re-think this dismissal of Florida due to it being overcrowded on the bike leg with packs of riders throughout the 180km, thanks for this perspective.

And seeing all the long, clear stretches of road in your footage, (that put the classic youtube 'Mad Max montage/Ace of Spades soundtrack' in my thoughts too...), and got me thinking about extreme solutions to the age-group pack riding...

Maybe 'cycling the gauntlet...?'

A 180km ride, clean or else, with blatant packs of wheel suckers getting picked off by marauding wasteland biker-berserkers and crazed Ute-driving trash, led by draft marshall, the Lord Humungus...

Jimmy always needs spare wheels and marshalls riding pillion, but would he go for extreme enforcement as detailed above...?
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Since you have the high quality you should post the number of the guy who hops on your wheel at about 2:10 and stays with you until 2:34.. many times he was on your wheel and in the draft zone with no pass. draftman time

http://www.fexycoaching.com
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [slake707] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Since you have the high quality you should post the number of the guy who hops on your wheel at about 2:10 and stays with you until 2:34.. many times he was on your wheel and in the draft zone with no pass. draftman time
nice find I remember the guy. the original isn't clear enough and I really have no intention of calling folks out. Originally I did and I called numbers out when using the helmet cam so could hear in the audio but I decided to leave that out and mute audio or put music on that video. the bike mounted cameras are in water proof case and the audio set to low volume audio recording(otherwise you just get lots of static clicking with hi volume record setting)
I remember that guy I use a mirror to watch for traffic and drafters and safety have worn one for every race I've ever done the last 24 years I was trying to scrape him out of my draft zone
by passing others quickly and as soon I was clear move to the right very quick so hes out of draft then slightly pick up the pace but didn't work finally I just slowed a bit let him go.
BUT saw him a little bit later(he had 2 straws or double aero bottle up front) then the scrape worked and I jumped the speed up more but I think he passed me again later on.
Still didn't look that bad to me. Last year on that stretch on 79 to the bridge there was a large pack this year I saw none until 34 miles.
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Re: So you think IMF field size is good excuse to draft.... Watch this [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry no offense, but if you are riding 22.4 in an ironman and got out of the water at 1:26, then you REALLY need to work on your swim.

The reason you so easily avoided drafting is because you came out of the water with much slower athletes, then easily flew past them on the bike. That is, you have a big difference between your equivalent swim and bike speeds. You are biking at the pace of people who come out of the water closer to 1 hour flat. The people coming out of the water at 1:26 are more in the 6+ hour range for the bike.

Not disputing your outcome, but I would be careful generalizing your experience here to everyone.

Oh, and thanks for the awesome videos.

**************************
Multisport Coach/Fitness Trainer, Nashville TN
Thoughts:http://www.sttrainercoaching.blogspot.com/
Results: http://sttrainer.blogspot.com/
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