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So then who SHOULD be President?
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With all the Bush-bashing that goes on every time you mention the guy's name, and the fact that the Democratic Campaign is a total mess, I'm curious to know who people think would be a good President.

I bring this up for three reasons: 1) It follows the trend of being totally unrelated to triathlon, 2) The Bush marathon thread has gone totally off the rails with Bush-bashing, and 3) The stuff I was reading today about Democrats and who they are voting for shows a serious lack of rational thinking.

Regarding the third item, apparently the biggest problem that Wesley Clark's campaign suffers from is that he was in the military, and many Democrats like him, but as "pacifists" don't feel that they can vote for a military man. I find this to be a red herring, especially given that almost every President has been in the military.

So other than P. Diddy, Chris Rock, and Bill the Cat, who do you think would not make a big mess of things, and why?

Disclaimer: I don't like Bush much myself, but the Dems have done a great job of looking like a bigger bunch of zipperheads than him, and that's saying a lot. If you find this to be a dead boring subject, feel free to let it die, or even start discussing good saddles.

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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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maybe O'neil :-))
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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Why, ME of course! And the first thing I would do is eliminate the kicking game from NFL football (particularly during overtime).
Thank You

"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [JM] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, you're watching the Rams too, huh?

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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [JM] [ In reply to ]
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what about me ? I will run against you...
I will eliminate Baseball (it's boring). All the money in baseball will go to triathlon and swimming (yeah!)
I will forbid the WTC to charge more than $250 entry fees...
Drafting and staggering will be forbidden (except on the run :-)

oh and
I will give myself a green card and then US citizenship (hehehe).
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [JM] [ In reply to ]
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I forgot one thing...

TV channels will not be allowed to schedule stupid Xmas parade, Tree lighting etc...instead of IMH....
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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I think the sad thing is the quality of the candidates that we produce. I about gagged last time around during the Bush/Gore debate thinking : "that's the best we can do?!" I mean geeze, they really aren't all that impressive except for Bush's marathon time.

The other issue that strikes me is the is the polarization and intollerance. I don't like that for society and long term think that is very distructive.

Just my 2 cents (about what it's worth!).

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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It's a hard job. He's done as good a job as anyone- much better than most. I know I couldn't have done as well.

One thing to remember: The decisions and situations the President deals with are not always overtly obvious or, for reasons of national security, even available to us. As it should be. Sometimes motives for doing things don't seem readily obvious.

They have their reasons. I know to trust in that.

I think George W. Bush has done a fine job and history will remember him as a great President during a very difficult time in both U.S. and world history.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Hey if Arnold could win then I say go for it, sure you got some hurdles but I am all for the platform/ideas you have,

You got my vote but you have to implement that no spectator will pay more than $5 to see any sporting event.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [Stewart] [ In reply to ]
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deal...

also, I propose that we move a big portion of the californian population to S/N Dakota, Montana etc...

Benefits: less crowded, less traffic, lower housing cost etc...Those who will be eligible to move to the northern states are all those who do not like to ride and run year round (should make some room :-)) )

Triathlon cost will also be tax deductible...darn, I like that!
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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David: I agree with everything you're saying. I think that many good people avoid the political arena because it has devolved to a war of charater assassination rather than intelligent discussion of the issues. Colin Powell, whom I think would be an excellent President, has said he will not run because he doesn't want to subject his family to that kind of scrutiny. How sad is that?

Tom: Your points are well taken. Overall, I am surprised that W has done as well as he has. I didn't vote for him, and I don't much like him, but he has some smart people working for him, they're telling him the right things, and he's obviously listening.

It sickens me when people compare him to Hitler, or argue that we deserved Sept. 11th, or some other ridiculously stupid statement that is both illogical and demeans some truly horrific events in human history. Unfortunately, a lot of my friends have used these statements. Apparently a very common illness up here is the inability to look beyond one's own well-being to the well-being of other people in the world. Another is the ability to think rationally.

On Bin Laden: Clinton tried to kill him in 1998 and failed. Why isn't anybody talking about that?

On Iraq: Screw WMD. We created that monster, he killed 500,000 of his own people, it was long past time to remove him. Sure it's about oil, but unless you want to freeze to death in your bed tonight, you need it too. What's wrong with a politically stable, self-governed Middle East?

On my privacy: Give me a friggin' break! In a word where you can buy my personal info online, my bank can give my financial data away, and my phone rings off the hook with slaes people and fund-raisers, do you think the government doesn't already know what they want to about you? The best you can hope for is to get lost in the noise.

What I care about is creating peace in the Middle East, maintaining a prosperous America, and working to resolve many of the world's outstanding problems. Our world is only going to get more complicated, and smarmy, fuzzy, constantly changing pandering from the Dems is helping nothing.

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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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I despise our 2-party system. Quite frankly, I'm ready to do away with the Republican and Democratic parties. Start from scratch. It really irritates me that Republicans can't say anything positive about the Democrats and vice versa.

I had written another couple of paragraphs but I just erased them. What's the point? Talking politics frustrates and depresses me.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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I think we are under the false impression that there is a handsome well-spoken extremelly successful leader out there that is completely honest and moral. This person may exist.

here's the catch ...

Someone like that likely doesn't "have what it takes" to win an election, much less compromise certain aspects to "get things done".

IMO, if you are not somewhat corrupt going into government, you will be coming out.

I don't know too many successful types (yeah, Like I brunch with anyone on the Fortune 500 list) that would be willing to take that pay cut, and be raked over the coals by folks that are nowhere close to the caliber of leader/business man that the president would/should/could be.

We might as well face it, we're just waiting around for Hilary to win.

With our presidency, it doesn't seem to matter who "should" be president. What matters is "who can win the election"?

That why every decision comes around to doing "what will get me re-elected" and not always "what is the right thing to do".

The president will be human and will be flawed. We should learn to realise that is our only option.

The person who should be president? Someone that doesn't actively seek the position. Those that want power, should likely not have it. I know that sounds "Lord of the Ringish", but that idea has been around since the formation of government.

This is the sytem we have to work with. We have basically 2 choices.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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... are you sure? Ever lived in a country that has a multi-party system? If so, you would notice they can't get anything done - good or bad.

Wait! ...now that I think about it, it might be a good idea... imagine that, a multi-party system creating gridlock.... brings back memories of a not to distance US political past. The bests times (from an economic standpoint) were during the days of congressional and executive gridlock... hmmm.... those were the days.... heavy sigh.

Joe Moya
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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Who would make a good President?

Don't really care... just about anyone who can get ELECTED this time without that Chad (and his cousin - Hanging Chad) around.... gees...

Joe Moya
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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I despise our 2-party system. Quite frankly, I'm ready to do away with the Republican and Democratic parties. Start from scratch.

If we keep giving away individual freedom and privacy, we might be living in another type of system. One that is dominated by government. Seems like we used to oppose such a thing. Now, we're becoming one ourself. I won't get started on that. It bothers me a bit that's the direction we seem to be headed. Whenever their is decline in moral charcter, freedom doesn't work as it should. Whenever the voters figure out they can elect whomever gives them the most stuff, democracy doesn't work as it should.

It really irritates me that Republicans can't say anything positive about the Democrats and vice versa.

Whatever system we have, as long as there are elections, there will be mud-slinging. It's so much easier to tear down another candidate than is to point out your accomplishments. Too much money and power involved to concede a good act to "the other side". That's who generally wins the elections ... the person that points out what the other guy did wrong, all the while with a charming smile.

In this last election, I don't think there was a candidate that America really got behind ... as was indicated by the voting 50/50.

To me as a young voter (30) who has only been involved in 3 elections, it seems you either vote for "more of the same" or "anything but what we've had". Add to that many people don't know each candidate's stand on individual issues, and the situation gets worse.

Now, that I've said all that, IMO our system is still best ... both in theory, principle, and application. We complain about it b/c it's what we've got. Let a foreigner complain about it, and we defend it with fervor.

I'll take our government over any other out there, I'd just like to see it a little less (more individual choice), run more efficiently (stop wasting $$$), and envoke a higher moral standard through model conduct. Other than that, it's perfect, Heh Heh

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Done a good job?? What? By completely bullshitting this country into a distracting war. I love how Bush's own former Treasury Secretary is now admitting that Bush had plans from day one to invade Iraq, and 9/11 gave him the perfect pretext, even if it is a bogus one. I live in NYC and experienced that day, and would love to exact revenge on the f*cks that did that. But we know that Saddam had nothing to do with it, that the WMD were a trumped up pretext (gee, none found since April!), our soldiers are now dying there, and, in the meantime, the terrorists are most assuredly plotting against us in Pakistan -- the place where we should really have put our troops to work. We have heard a lot about our success in Iraq. But when was the last time you heard of any meaningful arrest of an al-qaeda figure? I will tell you when. It was close to a year ago. That is, before Iraq started. While we are dicking around in Iraq, bin Laden is most assuredly cooking up something against us with relative impunity. But Bush is too busy trying to make us believe that some irrelevant, backwards ass country was a real threat to us. No really, the weapons are there. Really they are, and if they aren't, oh well, Saddam was a bad guy and it doesn't really matter that we went to war for reasons that turned out to be baseless, because credibility doesn't really matter after 9/11. For the moment, the public is willing to put up with this b.s. But I can guarantee this, if we ever get hit again (and God knows I hope that this never happens) people will start to question whether Bush made such smart decisions and whether he has really done such a good job.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

If we keep giving away individual freedom and privacy, we might be living in another type of system. One that is dominated by government. Seems like we used to oppose such a thing. Now, we're becoming one ourself. I won't get started on that. It bothers me a bit that's the direction we seem to be headed. Yeah, that's another thing that worries me.

We complain about it b/c it's what we've got. True dat. Let a foreigner complain about it, and we defend it with fervor. So a friend and I were in Penticton for IMC last year. The night after the race, we went to the after-party at some dance club. We met a couple of Canadian girls and later that night we got into a political discussion. One of them starts really going off on the US, making some rather uncalled for statements. We jump to Uncle Sam's defence and point out that Canada's government is also far from perfect(I won't mention anything here to avoid upsetting our many Canadian friend's on this forum-for some reason I feel more comfortable criticizing my own government than someone else's in public). She then begins to makes some very valid points and my friend and I agree with her for the most part. She gets really upset and says "Stop agreeing with me. I don't want you on my side. You're American!" Not exactly sure what the point of this story is, your comment just made me think of it and I don't have anything better to do on a Saturday night--and I'm single! Sad, huh?
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom, are you aware that Bush has pissed off nearly every country in the world? If I want to visit the US, I now have to be fingerprinted and photographed on entry! That means I'm not going to visit, as I resent being treated like a criminal.

Are you aware that the FBI now has the right to examine all your financial records, or demand any other information about you, without informing either you, or even a judge?

Do you not realise that every single reason Bush gave for going to war in Iraq was wrong, and most were outright lies?

History will remember Bush as a bumbling idiot who did serious damage to America's reputation and probably made the US a lot less safe in the long run.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [WebSwim] [ In reply to ]
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And what of the Aborigines? Oh yeah Australia is pure as snow.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [dhcrunner] [ In reply to ]
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I may be a bit jaded, but I get the feeling that the whole terrorist threat is grossly exagerrated. I know that there are a lot of truly sick people out there who mean us harm, but for around $20 an "evil-doer" can go to Home Depot and get what they need to make a device sufficient to pull off the kind of suicide bombing you see in Israel all the time. Granted, effecting something on the scale of Sept. 11th takes a lot more effort and coordination, but lighting up the supermarkets of America would probably be effective too. The fact that it hasn't happened leads me to conclude that there aren't too many people willing to do it. I just don't give the government credit for being effective enough to stop that sort of thing while being humble enough to say nothing about it. The whole "Keeping you safe from threats you aren't even aware of" thing is bogus. (Remember that a few years ago it was announced that there were over 11,000 Iraqi "students" in the US, any number of whom were potential plants.)

Perhaps this is hypocritical, but I think the war in Iraq was long overdue. I was in the service during the first Gulf War. When we just decided to stop and go home, leaving Saddam in power, there was a very loud "What the f***!?!" heard all over base. We should have removed him then, not waited 12 years. I resent the fact that lies were told to justify going in and removing him now, but not quite as much as I resent the fact that 500,000 dead Iraqis was not sufficient cause to go in in the first place.

It's kind of funny how tolerant we are of genocide. 1,500,000 dead in Rwanda. We did nothing. 500,000 dead in Iraq. Not our business. Tens of thousands dead in the Balkans. That's a Russia problem.(for those of you paying attention, Milosevic jsut got re-elected, even while his genocide trial is pending in the Hague.) Civil wars may be internal affairs, but when one side offers no resistance and is being slaughtered in their homes, that's genocide. It's even worse when the neighboring nations close their borders to refugees as happened in all these cases.

As far as the two-party system goes, I think we should all be impressed and proud that our political system has matured to the point where our nation is becoming like the UN and European nations. Soon there will be nothing but squabbling, nothing will get done, and if we're lucky, we'll get to see some footage of brawls on the Senate floor(a la Japan). Learn to embrace socialism, people. It may well be the worst idea ever conceived, but it is the one in which corrupt politicians feel most comfortable.

Thanks to all for your insightful posts. You have made this a much more interesting thread than I expected. I kind of expected "Shut up and talk about saddles, you a$$hole!"

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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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That may be so, but I'm Irish, and we never invaded anyone ;-)

Look, I think Bush is a terrible president, that's it. This has nothing to do with Americans as a people, just the current president.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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"It's kind of funny how tolerant we are of genocide. 1,500,000 dead in Rwanda. We did nothing. 500,000 dead in Iraq. Not our business. Tens of thousands dead in the Balkans. That's a Russia problem.(for those of you paying attention, Milosevic jsut got re-elected, even while his genocide trial is pending in the Hague.)"

Yep, it all kind of gets a little depressing after a while. Are we capable of living in peace at all?
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [WebSwim] [ In reply to ]
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You profile said you live in Australia. Well hey mistakes where made.

I want to say I'm sorry about my response to you. I'm tired and it sucked.

What I ment to bring up is the whole photo/finger print thing. Who is to say you aren't a common criminal? I know it is stupid American not understanding the world ignorance to still rember 9/11 but I have real hard time feeling bad that we are makeing some visitors feel bad. Nope can't give a shit.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: So then who SHOULD be President? [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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"Tens of thousands dead in the Balkans."

We did do something about that didn't we? Oh no we didn't. I was just there for the air and clean living.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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