i like hornets.


so, there is only one thing you need to think about: speed.

the best clinchers are proven faster in tt constant speed riding.

end of story.

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Where would you want to swim ?

[reply] cooler looking.... Clinchers are better braking, offer less rolling resistance...[/reply]

If these are some of your reasons then you clearly have it wrong or you don't know much about tubulars...

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you've been thinking about wheels quite a bit lately, huh?

This is about my conclusion as well. I'll be poring over the ads this winter, looking for a good deal...

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If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat

I honestly don't know anymore. My race wheels are all tubulars, but thats because I've been around for a while and bought them all when it was commonly understood that tubulars were faster. I'm sure race wheel manufacturers like them because it lets them claim lighter wheel weights. Next set of race wheels I buy will probably be clinchers. Probably.

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Elivis needs boats.

Explain to me why clinchers brake better...

??

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DING DING!! Artmus speaks the truth!
100 miles a day is the only power meter you need.

Well, I have a broken bike and a busted shoulder, so I not only have a need for new wheels, but i have an exorbinate amount of time on my hands. Now if only I had an unlimited budget I'd be all set, but alas, I will be selling my race wheels to come up with the coin for some new 'all around wheels'.

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

weight.

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It hurts so bad, it feels good.

Machined Al braking surface. Especially in the wet. no real worries of damagining braking surface with imbeded road debris in the pads.

Or am I really wrong here?

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

because they are faster to change during a race, if you know what doing (and leave a small space unglued ).

Pro tubular : lighter, more durable, better feel, safer in case of flat. Can finish a race if within a mile or so of the finsh line without changing in case of a flat. May be able o fix a flat with pressurized flat fix in 20 seconds in a race.

Con Tubular: bulky spare, harder to switch between tires, glue, increased rolling resistance vs the best clinchers

Pro Clincher : lighter / smaller spares, fastest rolling.

Con Clincher: best rolling resistance clinchers are fragile, can be difficult to deal with flats in a race situation, downhill flats can be an adventure, poorer handling

So make your choice

Styrrell

Carbon clinchers don't have an Alu braking surface...

My Bontrager Race X-Lite tubies have a machined Alu braking surface... So do my Mavie Ksyrium SL's...

If you're worried about road debris, check your brake pads and clean them if needed.

What specific wheels are you thinking of? It's true that a carbon braking surface could potentially be damaged by the pads, grits, etc, but not very likely if you maintain you equipment properly.

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DING DING!! Artmus speaks the truth!
100 miles a day is the only power meter you need.

In Reply To:

cooler looking.... Clinchers are better braking, offer less rolling resistance...

If these are some of your reasons then you clearly have it wrong or you don't know much about tubulars...

I think he has it right. Tubulars look cooler with the all black rim.

That said, the best clinchers have lower rolling resistance than tubulars and braking on a machined aluminum surface is better than on the carbon rim.

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Portside Athletics Blog

I like your synopsis, except the part about the best clinchers being fragile (definitely true for a Veloflex Record, but not true for a ProRace2 that still tests better than the BEST, well glued tubular).

Also, I've experienced a tubular flat that I rode for almost 2 miles (on some Zipp 404s) and was impressed I could still go about 16 mph! Rim was fine after as well!

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Who says we do?

Andy Coggan (proud early adopter of 700C Schwinn Pro Circuit (?) clinchers back in the 1980's)

you forgot:

Con Tubular: if you brake to slow on a serious descent in the summer, get ready for the glue to melt, the tire to come off the rim, and for you to most certainly end up in the hospital;

and

Con Tubular: if you flat and switch tubulars and still have downhills ahead you will have take every single turn like grandma: 10 mph if you're brave, so forget the race;

and

Con Tubular: if you flat in any race with moisture or rain, the spare ain't gonna stick (safely), end of story, end of race.

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Where would you want to swim ?

Tubular's don't get pinch flats. I rode my flat 808R the last 2 miles in a race and actually passed someone - you can maintain speed on them and be safe.

I think tubular wheels sound cooler while riding them. They have a nice little tone to them, which for some weird triathletes like myself, translates to thinking I'm fast (but not sure if it actually makes me go fast).

I dont know about other tubular's, but braking on zipp tubies sounds incredibly cool (not that I like braking, but when I do, I like how it sounds).

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When you are on slowtwitch, your competition is out training

ProRace 2. They cost about $30 CDN/each at the spring or fall bike shows when they are on sale. They are faster then 90% of tubulars, WAY more cheaper, and they are only going down in price now that the world knows that ProRace 3 is on its way.

I have had two flats while going high speed on clinchers, both at well over 60km/h, one of those was closer to 80 km/h. both times i just slowly breaked, and changed it out. Never having ridden tubular, i cant say if it would have been easier on one. Though I find that overall, clinchers, are faster, cheaper, and can be just as durable. Punch flats are easy to avoid. Just when you are putting the tube in, make sure its in good, and avoid smashing into things like curbs, potholes, large sticks at high speed.

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World Military Games(possible)-2008 Estonia
IMFL 2008

Cats dont like riding on bicycles....no matter how much duct tape you use.

So if it is not constant than tubulars are faster?

You forgot to add one major con to clinchers, clinchers are much heavier than tubulars.

If clinchers are so great, why do TdF teams ride tubulars? I remember a piece on Lance Armstrong where the Discovery team had a cellar of tubulars tires. All aging to the right time to use.

Please define "much" heavier. A few grams here and there...

Just for fun I took a look at the weight weenies

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/...yres&sortby=real

Seems even if you add in the weight of some inner tubes, clinchers are still coming out ahead in the weight department.

As for the Tour de France dudes, how many of them would still ride tubies if they had to change them themselves? :)

I don't have any experience with tubes, however, I have a very solid comfort zone with clinchers and enjoy being able to swap out my crappy trainer tires for my good race tires whenever I want. I can pretty much throw on whatever I want and be out the door (or on the trainer) in 5 minutes.

Chicks dig em.

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"...it should be swim, bike, run, cage fight." - el fuser
"I noticed that I am in your sig line! Wow! That's s first for me. Thanks." - Fleck

yeah, I saw that you needed surgery- bummer, but you'll be back in action soon.

Why not keep the race wheels and pick up a used set of training wheels for $100-$200?

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If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat

You can find many tubular wheel/tire systems under 1200 grams, very hard if not impossible to find a clincher system close. Under 1000 total front and rear combined is possible with tubulars if you got the $$$.

Take a look at the chart I just put up and I think you will change your mind about that.