The Look 596 has an elastomer in the seat tube, with no clamp bolt, that smooths the ride to nearly beam bike quality. It rides as good as my Zipp 2001's did.

My wife takes one look at the Cervelos and comments that the damn things are butt busters. The seat post must have zero give to absorb anything.....its straight up and down.

---

.
.
Paul

 

*facepalm*

that really isn't how it works.

also, you can put just as much elastomer between your butt and the wheels by choosing a seat with more padding.

though somehow I manage to ride a cervelo, with no padding at all anywhere with no problemos.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Interesting. I would be interested to hear what other people that have ridden several types of bikes say. I ordered a P2c because it fit and the price was right but I have not compared it to anything else. This will be my first dedicated tri bike.

Thanks,

---

To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

Reach high, think big, work hard, have fun.

Maybe the padding is all built in the butt.... ;)

I do have a big butt, but it is muscle, and that isn't where my seat rests anyway (adamo!)

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Just don't pump up your tires as hard.

I can only give you my experience, but I ride a Dual.

In 1987 I had percutaneous discectomy on L4 and L5. I have permanent foot drop and sciatic nerve issues mixed in with piriformis nightmares you could never imagine.

I ride a Dual and am as comfortable as I was on my TTX or Madone(full carbon rides).

So, for my experience I can only say if I thought I needed something else to help my back I would do it. Actually, I'm more comfy on my Dual than the TTX.

I will add this. Once I went to a Cobb VFlow and sat on a different part of my sits bones what little back discomfort I had went away. I truly believe there was something to that, but don't know how to articulate it any better.

Have a P2-SL, and do not think it to be harsh at all. Stiff yes, harsh no. It's not buttery, but the AL frame doesn't beat me up either.

I also ride HED C2 handbuilts (24/28 2x laced front and rear) at 85-90psi, so that is certainly helpful in the comfort dept.

NO.....seat padding does not work anything like an elastomer on a seat post. The elastomer does not move up and down like padding on a seat. You can **face palm** all you want. The Cervelo is still an ass buster, period. : )

---

.
.
Paul

I had a 2007 Felt B2 and then switched to a 2010 Cervelo P2 this year. I have to say I get a real smooth ride with my P2 and we have some rough roads here in southcentral PA. Now neither of these bikes compare to my Colnago C40 Tri that I had previously. Now that bike was butter smooth.

---

18x Ironman, 3x Hawaii
US Army (Ret.), Vietnam Vet ('71-'72)

I've ridden the Felt B16 and Specialized Transition and both were smooth as silk across the bumpy roads of Evanston. Was absolutely astounded by the Felt, especially given the price point differences (2000 vs 3500). I don't have any experience with Cervelo to compare them to, however.

---

***

Riding the Awesome Train With: Dark Horse Coaching

Actually neither the padding or the elastomer are "moving up and down"... they both compress. The padding compresses relative to the seat structure and the elastomer compresses relative to its junction with the frame. They both work the same in a dynamic model sense but their force deflection curves and elastic rebound are probably pretty different thus producing different ride quality. There is no reason though why the seat padding could not be made to perform like the elastomer seat post.

My 2 cents is to go ride one. One man's trash is another's treasure if you catch my drift.

I've actually not heard any Cervelo owners complain about a rough ride, but that doesn't mean it's not so. For my money once the carbon fork came out I noticed little to no comfort or performance gains in 'feel'. Not to say carbon isn't more aero, but having owned north of 40 bikes in my life of steel, alum, ti and carbon......the fork is where I stopped feeling 'oooh wow what a difference' moments.

I always thought my old aluminium P2K was a bit harsh. At the time I also owned a Lemond steel/carbon road bike so that was my comparision point. Everything is relative I guess.

I've ridden a Cervelo P2, a Jamis T1 and a Fuji D6 (hmmm... do I like numbers?) and they were increasingly comfortable in the order listed. The D6 is very sweet like that. So maybe the Cervelo's ride is a bit harsher. I picked the D6 based on fit/value/comfort compared to the others, but would have ridden whichever one fit me best. They all rode smoother than my aluminum road bike!

P2 and P3 framesets are not in the least harsh riding. here are some things to think about:

1. place a frame on the ground, push down on it. see how much compliance there is. not very much, right? as in, none. in fact, when you're riding, there is a bit of compliance, because the force transmitted up from the road when you ride over imperfections is greater than the test i describe above. still, frame compliance is minor.

2. wheels, on the other hand, can be somewhat compliant, esp if they employ the older style lacing, as in the 3x or 4x spokes in a traditionally laced wheel, that offer great lateral stiffness with some vertical compliance.

3. tires, tire pressure, saddle shells and uppers, and the saddle construction (specifically, where the rails attach to the shell), and your cycling shorts is where you'll find the large percentage of vertical compliance.

4. all that said, there is a place where vertical compliance resides in the bike, two places actually, both in the fork. in both these places, the compliance is greater when the head angle is slacker (assuming the bike is built geometrically correctly). the shallower the head angle, the greater the amount of fork rake, if your goal is to maintain a constant trail. in the case of cervelos, speed concepts, transitions, felts, later model QRs, it's rare to find head angles steeper than 72°. accompanying these head angles are forks with rakes of 45mm and more (up to 49mm and more).

the first of the two places on the fork where you'll see compliance is in the terminus of the blades, if the blade is raked. if the blade is straight, then the bending moment of the fork is shifted to the steerer, just above the crown, specifically just above the bottom headset bearing. in any case, this is the second place forks bend, therefore granting the rider that vertical compliance he might be looking for.

it's no secret, and no mystery, that when you put a fork in a testing machine and let it run for a week, this - the steerer just above the bottom bearing - is where it almost always breaks. this is expected, because this is where all the bending takes place. the shallower the head angle, the more the steerer is going to bend, the more compliance you'll get.

so, if you want a vertically compliant frame, don't get one with 73° of head angle and 40mm of fork offset. rather, look for a tri bike with steering geometry reminiscent of a touring bike: 72° and 45mm or 48mm of offset. these bikes, because of their steering geometries, tend to have greater front/centers. so, also look for greater front/centers and/or greater wheelbases. as all these numbers grow, vertical compliance increases.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

So this is why my personal assessment of ride quality stopped being significant when I got on a carbon fork ~ 94?

For once I was on to something.....whether by accident or intent!

Ummm...yeah...and this "analysis" is based on merely your wife's "eyeball compliance-O-meter"? Got it.

Seat post angle = measure of compliance...never heard that one before.

BTW, if the elastomer doesn't move, then it's not doing anything...you might want to think through THAT "analysis" as well a bit more...

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I have a P2C and I think it's amazingly comfortable. Michelin ProRace3 tires, a good chamois in the shorts, a seat that fits me right in the right places, and big neoprene aerobar pads make this a bike I can ride a long time.

I don't understand all this talk about them being harsh, that hasn't been my experience at all.

---

-------------------------------
Ignorance is bliss until they take your bliss away.

Does that potentially imply larger frames are going to have more compliance - due to greater wheelbase and/or longer fork steerer? If so then tends to encourage the get a bigger size....although kinda irrelevant for me as being 6'5" I tend to buy the biggest size anyway!

Agree that other items make a big contribution to ride quality - I've always used 23mm tyres at 110psi (Veloflex Pave with latex tubes - definitely notice the difference versus other tyres).

Dan

"Does that potentially imply larger frames are going to have more compliance - due to greater wheelbase and/or longer fork steerer?"

it might, if smaller bikes were made geometrically identically to larger bikes, that is to say, if smaller bikes were simply scaled down versions. however, because of shoe overlap smaller sizes often tend to be proportionally longer. read what i've written about the steering geometries of certain sizes of transitions, slices, plasmas. some of these bikes are real choppers, with head angles as shallow as 69.5° and offsets of 49mm or so. i don't mind the big offset, just, that one ought to be paired with a head angle no shallower than 71.5°. this places the fork on a pretty severe bias, and you're going to get a lot of bending, a lot of wheelbase, etc., and these are typically the frames in the S to M range. these bike will not be rigid versions of their larger sized cousins, if anything they'll be more compliant cousins.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hi
JMott is right......most of you are wrong

"TIRE Choice is key"
23 to 25mm handmade vittorias, veloflexx's or Challenge's
End of Issue
Stupid ASSumptions:
Forks flex to attenuate shock and vibration-WRONG
The materials involved attenuate same-yes
FRAMES flex to attenuate shock and vibration-WRONG
The materials involved attenuate same-YES!

Ok, RAPPSTAR, B-MAN, RocketScientist step in and hold class

Gotta walk across the living room, get in the endless pool and swim
Bye!
T

Come on down off your high horesy.........you must have missed the smiley face on my post. My wife can think anything she wishes when it allows me to purchase a new bike frame. : ) I really don't think she cares, nor do I, what a Cervelo rides like when she allows me to spend 5K on a new bike : )

---

.
.
Paul