Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri

Nov 16, 20 7:08

Post #1 of 36 (1554 views)

i think about this from time to time, but i don't know that we've aggregated them in one place, via a crowdsourced effort. probably so, and i just forgot. anyway, here's my list, and i'd like to know whether you take issue with my list and if so why, and what i'm missing on my list. some of these are big items (deep carbon wheels) and some small (top tube storage). the salient features, to make it onto this list, is that the single sport chose to disregard, or just didn't pick up on, the tech or feature, triathletes (who are not chained to tradition, only to efficacy) recognized the benefit, and then the single sport took a second look and finally adopted the tech or feature.

- deep carbon wheels (now popular in road and gravel, along with TT)
- aerobars (now popular in time trials and gravel)
- hard shell helmets (actually, in the beginning, foam w/nylon cover, morphing into hard shell)
- over-cushioned run shoes (e.g., HOKA) specifically for road use.
- top tube storage (now a thing on gravel bikes, soon to be a thing on road bikes)
- road tubeless (hasn't yet gotten from tri to road, but if so will get there via tri)
- zwift (i don't know if this is fair. yes it started here, but i don't know that we gave zwift the head start it needed.)
- smart stationary training (i.e., computrainer, and i do believe it was triathletes who were the early adopters.)
- oakley (factory pilots in particular; i contend it was triathletes who first boosted this brand, but i'm open to be corrected)

that's my short list.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Last edited by: Slowman: Nov 16, 20 7:09

Post deleted by Administrator [ In reply to ]

null-and-void

Nov 16, 20 8:06

Post #2 of 36 (1515 views)

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [null-and-void] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 8:15

Post #3 of 36 (1501 views)

null-and-void wrote:

Forward seatposts/steeper seat angles, but you already knew this ;)

Aerobars--isn't the progression: RAAM-->Tri-->Greg Lemond-->Fignon and everyone else-->Gravel

sure. and with HOKA the progression was: skyrunners => triathletes => road runners.

however, i'm not talking about who used it first. i'm talking about who made it popular.

and, to be picky, it was RAAM, triathletes, then lemond 2 years after the bars were in wide use by triathletes. in RAAM, these weren't for-sale bars, but garage customs made only for the users. i suspect aerobars were made, first, by boone lennon, for cyclists. but triathletes were the ones who adopted the tech, and cyclists scorned the idea until lemond used them. remember, we used the bar - then i made a frame for the bar, and brought it out for sale, full production - before lemond ever used them. and when lemond used them, he was the only one in the tour who did. so, triathletes were way ahead of cyclists, even for timed racing lemond was the only pro to ride them in the tour. there was no pro triathlete who didn't ride them in kona the year before, in '88.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Last edited by: Slowman: Nov 16, 20 8:16

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 8:35

Post #4 of 36 (1478 views)

for road tubeless, haven't the pro peloton been using them on and off for years? From my youtube feed of various amateur roadies, it seems like most of them have at least tried tubeless. Some are sticking with, and some found that the drawbacks outweighed the advantages.

a lot of OW swimmers I know like their wetsuits for getting in the lakes early / late. Don't race in them, obviously, but for just going for a swim they're great.

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Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 8:53

Post #5 of 36 (1463 views)

JasoninHalifax wrote:

for road tubeless, haven't the pro peloton been using them on and off for years? From my youtube feed of various amateur roadies, it seems like most of them have at least tried tubeless. Some are sticking with, and some found that the drawbacks outweighed the advantages.

a lot of OW swimmers I know like their wetsuits for getting in the lakes early / late. Don't race in them, obviously, but for just going for a swim they're great.

you cannot pay the pro peleton enough to use road tubeless. (well, actually, you probably can, knowing the pro peloton, but mostly they'll just take the money and use what they want anyway.) no. the pro peloton is not using road tubeless. the pro triathlon peloton is.

i got the lifetime achievement award by the open water swim assoc in the U.S., for the surface swimming wetsuit. to very muted applause ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:19

Post #6 of 36 (1450 views)

tubular is more safe, you can ride the rim after total flat.

Casartelli fell hard because he was on clinchers - one of the first years UCI allowed them to be used - tire came off the bead. Even tubeless can come off of rim if puncture is severe enough.

having been in the basement of both the Astana and Quick Step service courses, both teams had four palletts stacked up to 4' high of tubies being aged (2-3yrs).

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Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:22

Post #7 of 36 (1440 views)

The first helmet I bought, because it was required in the first TriFed sanctioned tri I did in '84 or '85, was the big black Bell helmet with a hard shell. I replaced the Bell helmet with subsequent smaller, lighter foam helmets with nylon covers before returning to a helmet with a hard shell.

Did triathletes adopt compression socks first?

Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Nov 16, 20 14:02

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:38

Post #8 of 36 (1396 views)

What about the whole aerodynamically shaped frame tubes, on the bikes?

Athlinks / Strava

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:43

Post #9 of 36 (1383 views)

grip shift/bar ends shifters

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Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Dean T] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:46

Post #10 of 36 (1376 views)

I thought about that, but it’s not really apples - apples. Aero tubing was accepted by roadies for TTs at the same time as triathletes, and in some cases were even more extreme examples that weren’t available to triathletes, like the ‘90s pinarellos under Indurain, Riis and Ulrich. Aero road frames took longer, but the draft legal triathletes were riding pretty much the same thing that roadies were, besides clipons that is.

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Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:51

Post #11 of 36 (1368 views)

.. and the saddles that made the back flat ??

*
___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:52

Post #12 of 36 (1358 views)

Slowman wrote:

- over-cushioned run shoes (e.g., HOKA) specifically for road use.

Interesting. Never associated that with triathlon.

If power measurement for running ever takes off, that's a triathlon thing.

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:57

Post #13 of 36 (1348 views)

desert dude wrote:

bar ends shifters

The popularity of bar-end shifters predates the existence of modern triathlon by decades.

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [HTupolev] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 9:58

Post #14 of 36 (1345 views)

HTupolev wrote:

desert dude wrote:

bar ends shifters

The popularity of bar-end shifters predates the existence of modern triathlon by decades.

I think DD is referring specifically to putting them on aero bars.

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Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 10:35

Post #15 of 36 (1312 views)

What kind of a lame list is this. I see some major omissions!!!!

Some guy in California really launched these into triathlon and now they are mainstream in single sport:

swimming wetsuits for open water mass participation races and cold water training
discrete time trial bikes (vs a road bike that you ride in the aero position)

Other than that, what about Chip Timing of endurance events versus the old number+notepad+stopwatch method?

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 10:50

Post #16 of 36 (1285 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

What kind of a lame list is this. I see some major omissions!!!!

Some guy in California really launched these into triathlon and now they are mainstream in single sport:

swimming wetsuits for open water mass participation races and cold water training
discrete time trial bikes (vs a road bike that you ride in the aero position)

Other than that, what about Chip Timing of endurance events versus the old number+notepad+stopwatch method?

these have to be undeniable cases of triathlon adoption concurrent with single sport obstinacy, followed by eventual single sport adoption. and it can't be triathlon adoption of a tech that only gained peripheral purchase in a single sport. that's why i didn't mention the wetsuit. i don't know how much penetration the wetsuit has made into pure open water swimming.

so, i wonder about electronics. and i don't know. power meters? but i think cyclists did adopt these alongside triathletes.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 11:07

Post #17 of 36 (1265 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

What kind of a lame list is this. I see some major omissions!!!!

Some guy in California really launched these into triathlon and now they are mainstream in single sport:

swimming wetsuits for open water mass participation races and cold water training
discrete time trial bikes (vs a road bike that you ride in the aero position)

Other than that, what about Chip Timing of endurance events versus the old number+notepad+stopwatch method?

To be fair, tt specific bikes were already pretty common among road racers, they just weren't designed around aerobars and the resulting position (since those hadn't been introduced yet). Aerobars (and later UCI regulations) changed what a TT specific bike looked like...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 11:12

Post #18 of 36 (1257 views)

the split nose saddles

i would agree compression gear especially calf guards was triathlon

as for tubless i guess that goes clearly to mountain biking.

and grip shift was i thnk also more mtb and bar end shifter cyclecross-

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 11:18

Post #19 of 36 (1253 views)

Dan - I'm thinking about purpose-driven endurance sports drinks. Things like Infinit, Heed, Carbo-Pro, etc. I'm sure the pro cycling tours used home-brewed calorie dumps in various forms. But I suspect the mass-market availability of these newer drinks was driven by the triathlon boom of the last few decades. These drinks are not just an iteration of the old basic Gatorade, but a whole new food product that allowed for slower energy burn and sustained performance over time, vs. short burst activities.
-Doug

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-Joseph Pilates

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 11:48

Post #20 of 36 (1217 views)

Slowman wrote:

so, i wonder about electronics. and i don't know. power meters? but i think cyclists did adopt these alongside triathletes.

I was a roadie (and I still am to some extent) long before I was a triathlete, and I never heard of or considered a power meter until I got into Tri and joined this board. I am still the only one on my cycling team with a power meter on my road bike, although I do see them in crits more often now.

I would say that power meters are certainly a tech that has was made popular by Tri and then adopted by the road guys.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 12:02

Post #21 of 36 (1205 views)

Total Immersion

Yes, pure swimmers never got on board, but you see a lot of the principles espoused by Terry&Co. now widely adopted by world class swimmers (ex. head in line with body).

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Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 12:07

Post #22 of 36 (1200 views)

there's another one that i completely forgot. monocoque carbon bikes. you couldn't give away a kestrel 4000 to a roadie. on our saturday ride, como street (in SoCal) back in, say, 1986, there were about a half-dozen kestrels. wayne stetina finally got one. otherwise, it was about 5 of us all on the same tri team, we all had them, and the roadies pretty well spit on them until wayne got his.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 12:22

Post #23 of 36 (1177 views)

Slowman wrote:

the pro peloton is not using road tubeless. the pro triathlon peloton is.

I don't know about the relative adoption between those two groups, but some in the pro road peloton have definitely used road tubeless. The first two stages of this year's Tour de France were won on tubeless tires - Kristoff on stage 1, then Julian Alaphillipe on stage 2 (and they both reportedly used them at times on other stages/races). Fabio Jakobsen used them in the 2019 Tour of California. There are numerous other examples.

It could be that some or all of those guys were sneaking latex tubes into TLR tires. But they *say* they were going full tubeless.

For the cobbled classics some teams have "trade secrets" regarding the use of special inserts to avoid tubeless pinch flats (which can still happen with tubeless or tubular tires if the rim strike is hard enough), and to make the bike rideable after the flat like a tubular is. Of course some of these inserts are commercial products now, but apparently teams are trying pre-production stuff.

Last edited by: trail: Nov 16, 20 12:31

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [trail] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 12:31

Post #24 of 36 (1163 views)

trail wrote:

Slowman wrote:

the pro peloton is not using road tubeless. the pro triathlon peloton is.

I don't know about the relative adoption between those two groups, but some in the pro road peloton have definitely used road tubeless. The first two stages of this year's Tour de France were won on tubeless tires - Kristoff on stage 1, then Julian Alaphillipe on stage 2 (and they both reportedly used them at times on other stages/races). Fabio Jakobsen used them in the 2019 Tour of California. There are numerous other examples.

It could be that some or all of those guys were sneaking latex tubes into TLR tires. But they *say* they were going full tubeless.

what i hear from the tire brands is that they can't get the pro teams to use them. excuse after excuse. so, yeah, it may well be that there's occasional use in the peloton, but there is almost universal use among top pro triathletes, with no arm twisting. that said, the thing about tires jumping the rim in case of a flat is a reasonable beef. offsetting that - so far in my investigation - is that the fitment is pretty dialed in the new generation of hookless rims and tires made for that tech. but, there are very few tire companies who've met that tech challenge. schwalbe, giant (CADEX), ENVE, that's about it. vittoria, i have a conference all with them day after tomorrow on whether their tires actually work for that kind of wheel. long story on that. conti? not even. so...

complicated story.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Single Sport Technologies and Features Made Popular First in Tri [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 20 12:34

Post #25 of 36 (1157 views)

Slowman wrote:

the thing about tires jumping the rim in case of a flat is a reasonable beef.

Yeah, I just edited my post with some pro teams hinting at "secret" things they're doing to tubeless to make them rideable after a flat. Likely some variation on foam inserts.

I think some teams are bit more adventurous that your sources give credit for.

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