Blegh. You and Khai should form a support group. Good luck with it...

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

At least it isn't your legs! :)

no...but it's definitely too much shit piling up lately.

We have one. Each of us says STFU and HTFU to the other. It's great.

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

90% of the population over the age of 30 has that same MRI.
do therapy.

But Facebook said I was 15!!!

LOL! I came out as 22 on that quiz. (Real age 42).

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Dude you LOOK 15

That's just because fb doesn't think you're done growing yet...

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Hey a$$khai, I'll talk to you when I need a garden gnome, aaight?
what's that kinky stuff hanging from your ceiling by the way??

I've had both done... things the make you go ouch!!! door mounted shoulder harnesses... opening with the harness still wrapped around your arm, and when you are feeling better and you think the pain has gone away... reflexively using towels especially when drying your hair or pulling up bed covers... still brings me to my knees just thinking about it.

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Jay

Generally, many surgeons would not repair a tear that size. If it progresses, maybe.

However, its not uncommon for a surgeon to perform a decompression (open up the subacromial space) IF pain is constant and excruciating.

If it were me, I'd ask the surgeon to assess the status of your subacromial space to see if this is an aggravating cause (the type/morphology of the acromion, the position of the acromion/CA ligament, etc). If the space is relatively large and forgiving, then exercises may do the trick (scap stabilization), if not, a decompression may be necessary.

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JC
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jeffcubos
Website: http://www.jeffcubos.com

Look buddy, if you're gonna go all wanksta on me you gotta talk to [/url]my alter ego

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

I suffered a torn labrum from a snowboarding accident and had to get surgery before I could even start thinking about swimming. I had 30% of my labrum left and would dislocate my shoulder if I was not careful about how I moved. You might check out the article, "Acute shoulder and elbow dislocations in the athlete" by G. Burra and J. Andrews from the Journal of Ortho Clinics of NA. Andrews is pretty much the top shoulder guy for athletes in the world. Dr. Burra did my surgery in Chi. Good luck.

I had partial thickness tears of my supraspinatus and subscapularis, a frayed labrum, and a bone spur. I worked with a great physical therapist, but it became clear that the problems (significant pain and weakness) were really only going to be resolved with surgery. I had the surgery; as surgeries go, it wasn't awful, although I hear it's much harder with full thickness tears. Compared to back surgery, it was a breeze! I was off work for 3 days, on a spin bike with my arm in a sling the next week, in the pool kicking within a couple of weeks. I can't remember the exact time frames, but I was swimming (gingerly) within probably 4 months and did the Hour Swim about 9 months afterwards, with no ill effects. It's fine now (two years later), although I still work with a physical therapist because of chronic infraspinatus tightness on that side. I started weight training as well, which has been enormously helpful for both my shoulder and back.

Good luck!

Heidi

Khai - U R "One LOC'D Out Asian"!!! LMAO!!! ;-)

Next you two are going to start accusing each other of "heightening".


Frahhn-zwaaah - have you looked into getting a good ART dude to put a beat-down on you?
It doesn't work all the time or for everything, but I'd definitely recommend that option before you even remotely consider the knife.

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float , hammer , and jog

Well, that's the thing...if I didn't try to swim, I would probably know it's injured. It doesn't hurt at all while pulling the handle bars for instance. If I try to apply force with my shoulder stretched far back, then it starts hurting...but the pain isn't constant, nor excruciating. but it does prevent me from swimming.

I have been keeping this under wraps all winter long. Below is my story. Unfortunately for me, my own injury is the most severe I have yet to hear or read, so that is good news for you.

I have been fortunate to experience some amazing adventures in my life. I have competed in hundreds of triathlons and endurance races and have been snowboarding and surfing in the most pristine locations in the world. Most have been without any incident or injury. Ironically, on New Years day I was snowboarding at a ski resort in Utah. While I was practically stopped waiting at the bottom of a run, I was hit by an out-of-control women skiier going about 30 mph. She blindsided me and impacted my right shoulder. I could not lift my right arm up to save my life right. I had an MRI on jan 2. I hade a "complete and massive tear and separation of the entire rotator cuff (all muscles) and it had retracted back 4 cm. The biceps tendon is completely detached from the humorous bone as well." This was the doctor's description on the MRI results.

Surgery to reattach it was needed if I was to ever to raise my right arm. I had surgery on Jan 16. Reconstructive surgery lasted over six hours and there are now 7 anchors and 1 screw to attach all of the muscles, including my bicep, back onto the bone. I was not allowed to move my arm/shoulder for about 8 more weeks without the help of a physical therapist in order to not risk detachment after surgery. I am almost 12 weeks out since surgery, and I just got into the pool for the first time this past weekend. I swam with one arm, leaving my back arm on a kick board. Rehab has been slow, delicate and so far it has been more painful than anything I have ever gone through so far in 5 other surgeries, including my ankle reconstruction in 2002. It is looking will take about 6 months before anything close to full range of motion is likely...but I remain very optimistic and happy with the way things are right now.. This put me out for any snowboard trips and surf trips and any triathlon racing until about July if that. But I am running a little and riding a spin bike, so at least I am doing something. Mentally and emotionally I am fine with this all. It has given me time to buckle down on work at my company, and to really assess what is important as far as the long term well being of my body.

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Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

There's been some great advice thrown out for you. To decide on surgery or no surgery is tough. The question is: how much of the labrum is actually torn? The results state "antero-inferior to postero-superior" but this is pretty vague. You want to get a clock position tear description. This will give you a better sense as to how much of the labrum is torn. Your current pain levels, description, and behavior will also guide you. Are you in tremendous pain with very little movement? Or can you be pretty active before flaring it up?

The conservative approach is physical therapy. You may be able to drive your pain levels down with increased strength and functionality, depending on where you are at now. If you get better, you can avoid surgery at least for the short run. Much will depend on what you do after therapy is done and how consistent you are with home exercises.

Someone also mentioned having your acromial space checked out. Since that supraspinatus runs under the AC, there might be a "hook" in the acromion causing the tear. If no hook, the tear might be a result of an impingement caused by para-scapular muscle imbalances, usually lower trapezius weakness, along with others (rotator cuff muscles for stabilization).

What does your doctor suggest? If they suggest therapy, I would recommend you do this even if you decide to do surgery. If there are muscles weaknesses that can improve, this will help to drive better outcomes after surgery.

This is just a bit of information...I hope it helps.

Mark
Physical Therapist

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Mark Payares, PT, DPT, CSCS
Physical Therapist
USA Cycling Coach Level 3
http://www.start2finishstudio.com

THis is the complete description:

Sagitta, axial and coronal imagine was acquired through the patient's left shoulder utilizing T1 and T2 weighted sequences.

There is a partial thickness bursal surface tear at the anterior leading edge of the supraspinatus tendon measuring approximately 9mm transverse and 9mm AP. There is no full thickness rotator cuff tear with normal appearance to the infraspinatus, subscapularis, and teres minor tendons.

The long head of the biceps tendon is intact. There is slight irregularity of the glenoid labrum at the anteroinferior margin and the superoposterior margin suggesting fraying/degeneration of the labrum, underlying small tear could be obscured.

The acromion is flat without spur. There is no subacromial subdeltoid bursitis. No AC joint osteoarthritis. No Hill-Sachs or bony Bankart lesion.


For pain levels, see previous post...basically never hurts unless I try to swim.

Sweet mother of crap!

Okay, I'll stop complaining now...


Here's to a full and complete recovery, Emilio!

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

It sounds pretty minor. Good thing is that acromion is flat and there's no other involvement from the other rotator cuff muscles. The results do suggest uncertainty about an underlying tear due to present fraying, etc. The doc wouldn't know anymore unless he scoped the shoulder.

Surgery, at least from what docs have indicated, has to come with certain conditions: the tear can't be too big or too small. Your doctor would be able to tell you what size tear indicates a good surgical candidate. The labrum though is the question mark. Without being able to see it, you won't know.

Did the doc suggest therapy? If you went, swimming would have to be shelved for a bit. Exercises would more than likely be below shoulder level, especially since swimming is the aggravating factor. Stabilization of the shoulder just may help.

Get the doctor's advice and then chew on it. Weigh your options and then decide. Surgery can often help, but it doesn't always. It depends on your body, the surgical technique, and of course your compliance to exercises and such.

Mark

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Mark Payares, PT, DPT, CSCS
Physical Therapist
USA Cycling Coach Level 3
http://www.start2finishstudio.com

thanks Khai,

i have told a few people the same thing and shared this story.

doing well though. hope all is well on Oahu.

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Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

Thanks for the perspective. Going back to HTFU and rehab with my wussy injury (which happened while running actually...I ran on a patch of mud and slipped...ah those dumb injuries...)