What is up with the People Magazine mentality? I think the horse is dead. The kid screwed up and he apologized. If you don't accept it or think it is sincere, fine. Take it up with him offline if you know him, or shun him from your little group of triathletes. Just knock off the grandstanding and trying to keep dragging this kid through the court of public opinion. It serves no purpose and just makes you all seem like you don't have a lot going on.

To Mike. I don't think you should post your last name and I would advise anyone who would want to do this to think twice. It is a world-wide community and last names are often googled by prospective employers. A verse from the bible about people casting stones comes to mind.

i think the kid should be thanking his lucky stars that his full name hasn't been posted, as this is something any prospective employer would be interested in.

notwithstanding that, you realize that you and matt jumping in for the last word every time someone posts, claiming that he's "learned", "broken up", or we're "beating a dead horse", only serves to re-bump the thread back to the top.

this is a forum. by definition it's a place where people can discuss things. you feeling that the issue has blown over, doesn't mean that nobody else can discuss it. or that people who weren't here for the entire discussion are not free to comment as well. he did a stupid thing. an apology for stupid behavior does not negate the behavior, nor does it close the case necessarily. actions have consequences.

the thread and the issue will ultimately die. but we don't need to be told by one of his defenders that it would be stupid to post his name, or that we can't discuss.

So when your wife cheats on you with her tennis coach, you don't mind if we post her first and last name on the tennis forum?

For the record, I was referring to people that know him personally from the "long island triathlon scene" using this forum to further humiliate this guy publicly. If they know him personally, deal with it personally.

 
What I find interesting is that we apparently have a pro who, by the accounts of some of his/her peers, sat behind a vehicle for 5 miles or so on the Queen K, and no one is willing to out them.


But this post has 400+ posts on it about some kid that no one knows.


Either way I kinda think as Nick from Wisconsin does - judge not lest ye be judged....

here we have another double standard fan. so it's okay for people to complement him for apologizing but it's not okay for someone to say that he/she doesn't care about his apology and will judge him accordingly? automatically thinking that someone who rips doesn't "have a lot going on" is a very odd way of looking at things. perhaps you are the one who "doesn't have a lot going on?" why do you think perspective employers shouldn't know this about mikey? i know that if i were interviewing him, i sure would want to know that he cheated in a triathlon world championship, and wouldn't want to hire him just because of that. i never could trust him.

it's a f***ing triathlon! what this thread has devolved into is ridiculous.

Absolute rubbish.

Mike, get over it already. It was a mistake. We've all made them and yours was just over some stupid race.

 
hire.

Exactly what I was thinking. Ridiculous.

I agree with the line of logic that one misstep helps to build a case against one's character. As a member of the military, I've seen this logic applied time and again, because honor, integrity, and loyalty all matter to us for pretty obvious reasons. I'd argue those reasons are just a tad bit more important than anybody's hobby. However, even when we're talking about somebody's integrity having a very real impact on another person's life, we also have this idea of not judging a man based on his worst hour. If the military can take this approach to life or death situations, I think triathletes can make the leap and apply it to Kona, which (gasp) doesn't have the same consequences as military operations. If you really do think it's just a hobby, then a PR is not the meaning of your life, and you truly can separate the important things like your family, career, etc. Again, this sort of action by Mike helps to build a case; it does not condemn a man outright.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that based on your excessive use of Roget's you are most likely a lawyer, so hopefully you will understand in these terms. Yes, Mike can certainly be convicted of cheating at Kona and be punished for that. As for the charge of "being a terrible person who deserves to rot in triathlon hell for eternity," there's only one piece of anecdotal evidence that he is a terrible person, and countless examples proving the opposite that are not necessarily here in this thread but I'd be more than happy to speak about, as I'm sure mgalluzz would as well.

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IG: idking90

Did you read my post? Where did I say it was OK for people to compliment him for fessing up? Where did I compliment him for fessing up? I stand by my original statement that if you are this worked up over some 21 year kid cheating in a leg of a triathlon, you must not have a lot going on. It is pathetic that adult men (I assume) continue to come to this thread and act like jilted girlfriends. That is pathetic.

Just replying to this thread in general. Triathlon1989 is a 21 year old kid. It seems he chose to DNF at first, cutting out the energy lab and heading home. Then he chose to go through the chute at the last moment with all the hype around. Perhaps like some kids the fear of failure in front of family pushed him to make the wrong choice which he is obviously regretting. I feel more sad for him than anything. Sometimes in life we learn lessons the hard way. He made the wrong decision on the biggest stage of this sport. Some of us at that age drove a car while drunk, that no one really new about. 21 year olds do make mistakes and learn from them. It sounds like he already is.

I wanted to post a link to an interesting opinion piece in today's NYT. It may apply here.

It basically says that we should step back and reevaluate how we develop our young people. It's not all a straight line. There needs to be successes and failures along they way.

http://www.nytimes.com/..._r=1&ref=opinion

I say, let the kid learn from his mistakes and maybe become an even better person. Just post your Garmin file next time you race, kid.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

+1 - This thread should be closed - like kicking a dead horse. I think this sport and community is like brotherhood. I have raced cars, sailboats, run, swam and have not experienced such a high peer support level in any of these sports as I have seen/experience in the TRI community. Perhaps this is my immediate TRI community but I think it is wide spread especially after being at Kona and other international races - it is very communal for all.

I think Tiathlon1989 has learned a hard lesson and in life we all continue to learn/mature/improve character etc and how we apply these learning's will determine how successful we will be personally and professionally. Kids - especially boys need to get a free idiot pass at least once. God only knows I am happy to have had many myself and hope my son's literally survive through their youthful offender years as well.

I don't see why it should be closed......If people want to discuss this guy and how he cheated they should have a free form. If you think it's a "dead horse" don't read it!

Well said!

Also, maybe I should mention:

A collection of stepladders for sale.

Tall enough to reach the highest of horses.

Any takers?

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My Blog

Ageed on the free idiot pass for young people.

As a parent of a 15 year old, I had some more time to think about this thread. Around me I see lots of "high pressure parents" for whom anything but being the absolute top in anything is not good enough.

I also coach youth sport and I see parents who are quite overbearing. Even yesterday, I had a parent of a 13 year old girl lobbying me in front of her kid why her daughter should be in the group with the more advanced kids, as if she it was her trying to be part of the program. The 13 year old daughter could probably care less which XC ski group she will be in this winter, but mom was all over the head coach (me), to put her in the advanced group. Kids learn at a young age that the parents don't settle for anything but the top....

From a young age, kids can learn from their parents, that it's not good enough to try and fail. The only acceptable outcome is trying and being the best. Some kids just turn off and rebel. Other kids live through this high pressure horror show and try to live up to the parental expectations. It might be in sport, it might be in academia, it might be in both.

I can't say this is the case for Triathlon1989, but its all over the place. We see high achievement kids doing all kinds of things to get a successful outcome to live up to parental pressure. Things like cheating on exams, plagerizing essays etc are known to happen in academia at high profile Ivy league schools.

A 21 year old kid, racing in Kona may have felt the pressure of those types of expectations. I don't know if he did, and I'm not saying what he did was right, but somewhere in his apology he mentioned something about letting down his parents/family etc.

Sure we all feel we let down those who supported it us when we fail at something. But kids need to know that it is perfectly acceptable to try hard, crack and fail under pressure or duress and that it is a better outcome than taking illegal shortcuts in getting things done and that trying and failing is a much more noble endeavor than never even trying at all.

In my view, Triathlon1989's situation is just as much a failure of his parents as it is a massive lapse in his own judgement. I hope his parents took a step back and said something along the lines of, "What you did was wrong, but you're never letting us down if you try and fail. But you are letting us down when you cheat to achieve success."

He's not 13, 15 or 17....He's a 21 year old man. It's no wonder why as a country we suck....I'm not giving this guy a pass to easy. Low expectations equal low results.

(a clip from the OP)
"That's one hell of a negative split! But RX was sure bragging at the pool the next day to anyone who was in earshot"

Takes big balls to sit at the pool and brag the NEXT day.....then he gets pimped...O-wait I'm sooo sorry! He is no diffrent then a doper and I hope he get the boot for a least 2-years!

YHGTBFSM

The part above is what gets me. If he was indeed remorseful he would have been avoiding the subject like the plague each time the race came up in conversation and not bragging on his run splits.

How about this part of the OP:
"but "lost his chip during the run" so had to go to the officials to get an official time registered"

If, as the offender explains it, he was simply caught up in the moment of the finish line and made an ill-advised impromptu decision to run through the finish line, then how does he explain that he found time to "lose" his chip and also then go out of his way in the hours afterward to explain that his chip was lost to officials in order to get an official time? Add to that the days-after bragging and I don't buy the "it was a stupid, innocent, ill-advised impromptu decision in the excitement of the moment" argument he has attempted to downplay it with.

This guy is Finman but is receiving a very different reception from ST. c'est la vie - there's a lot of people doing worse things in the world today. It's only a race and a MOPer at that.

You guys can sit around on the internet nailing the guys to the cross. I'm not letting him off the hook either. I just see this as something that occurs in all aspects of life...in sport, in academia, in business. People who can't live up to external expectations and do the absolutely wrong thing rather than doing the right thing out of the gate. My expectations for people like many of you guys is higher. I hate when it happens

I'm separating my expectations for people from understanding the background as to why they choose to make poor decisions. As I have people who work for me, and I coach kids, I just seek the understand how and why people make poor decisions so that I can make sure the people around me don't put themselves in ethically questionable situations that they have to explain their way out of.

I brought up the example of coaching kids of overbearing parents for that reason. Often times, parents don't know what values they are inadvertantly ingraining into kids. The kids grow up in an environment where success at all costs is required, while the parents may be oblivious to the fact that sucess is coming not the way they intended.