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Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
 
Titanflexr wrote:


My personal vote for his punishment: 2 year ban (same as doping) from IMs and "community service" of volunteering both years at an Energy Lab aid station helping those who had the courage to do what he did not.

Nina Kraft got back to Kona after 2 year ban, she stole all the glory from Natascha a thing she will never be able to get back. How can we compare the Racer X with Nina.

If the new rule you get DQ = 2 year ban... I just could dream that when you get DQ for drafting in a race you get the same punishment... After all aren't these people saving energy and time that will result in faster bike and run split, almost same effect cutting the course.

In my book if there isn't a specific written rule saying that you get ban for 2 years by cutting the course then DQ is the only sanction he should get. WTC can create a new rule if it doesn't exist today but can't apply to previous cases that happen before it. Same thing in Justice...
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [MTL] [ In reply to ]
 
MTL wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:


My personal vote for his punishment: 2 year ban (same as doping) from IMs and "community service" of volunteering both years at an Energy Lab aid station helping those who had the courage to do what he did not.


Nina Kraft got back to Kona after 2 year ban, she stole all the glory from Natascha a thing she will never be able to get back. How can we compare the Racer X with Nina.

If the new rule you get DQ = 2 year ban... I just could dream that when you get DQ for drafting in a race you get the same punishment... After all aren't these people saving energy and time that will result in faster bike and run split, almost same effect cutting the course.

In my book if there isn't a specific written rule saying that you get ban for 2 years by cutting the course then DQ is the only sanction he should get. WTC can create a new rule if it doesn't exist today but can't apply to previous cases that happen before it. Same thing in Justice...


As you pointed out via bolding, it's my personal thought on what would be just; not based on any WTC rule.

IMO there are degrees of violations. Abandoning equipment (ex. not going back for the brillo pad thingy that popped out of your aerodrink) is not the same as taking EPO. You can get DQ'd for things that didn't give you an advantage (ex. riding without a helmet), do DQ <> ban.
Course cutting and knowingly taking PEDs to me are both examples of extreme violations that warrant a harsh penalty. The only thing I can think of that would be worse is to knowing endanger another competitor (ex. purposely crashing someone else on the bike).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Fred Doucette] [ In reply to ]
 
Fred Doucette wrote:
ericM35-39 wrote:
bgannon wrote:
bad on you for cheating, but admitting it takes HUGE balls like everyone said before.


no, not cheating and gutting it out to the finish when you are feeling like crap takes huge balls. In other words, doing the right thing when nobody is watching. This is called integrity. This is called honesty. Admitting it takes nothing.

As a first year triathlete I could see how you might get this confused.


Good points.

Personally I had a bad triathlon 'jouney' this year with a hard goal of KQ at IMWI this year. My race was an epic worst despite strong training, coaching etc. My first mile off the bike on the run course was agony and it got worse. I ended up finishing almost exactly 2 hours slower on the run than goal pace and was definitely in the darkest of places. It sucked balls for approximately 100% of it. I gutted it out despite losing 14lbs (weigh 160)

At Wisconsin there are some issues with the run course imho.... specifically there are some turnarounds that do NOT have timing mats. A female pro was discussing how she saw some people (AGers) cut the out and back (ala NEWBZ style) which made her mad.

The funny thing is as bad as that fucking run was it never even occurred to me to do something like that. I was like "why would you do that??"

Yup the disappointment was pretty bad during and after that race, but I did sleep well that night.

Honestly though, I'm 41 and have a little life experience. I definitely would cut some slack to a 22 yo (yes he gets a DQ and other punishment), but when I was 22 I did some really dumb stuff as well.

I can understand how it happened and the pressures he felt.

Probably I will get flamed for being forgiving or understanding to the guy, but I don't really care and I'm old enough to know people make mistakes....

Almost exactly my reaction (subbing B2B 2010 for IMWI 2011 and age 43 for 41, and most of my really stupid stuff I did at age 21 rather than 22, when I was busy paying for it...).


----
Michael
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Fred Doucette] [ In reply to ]
 
Fred Doucette wrote:
ericM35-39 wrote:
bgannon wrote:
bad on you for cheating, but admitting it takes HUGE balls like everyone said before.


no, not cheating and gutting it out to the finish when you are feeling like crap takes huge balls. In other words, doing the right thing when nobody is watching. This is called integrity. This is called honesty. Admitting it takes nothing.

As a first year triathlete I could see how you might get this confused.


Good points.

Personally I had a bad triathlon 'jouney' this year with a hard goal of KQ at IMWI this year. My race was an epic worst despite strong training, coaching etc. My first mile off the bike on the run course was agony and it got worse. I ended up finishing almost exactly 2 hours slower on the run than goal pace and was definitely in the darkest of places. It sucked balls for approximately 100% of it. I gutted it out despite losing 14lbs (weigh 160)

At Wisconsin there are some issues with the run course imho.... specifically there are some turnarounds that do NOT have timing mats. A female pro was discussing how she saw some people (AGers) cut the out and back (ala NEWBZ style) which made her mad.

The funny thing is as bad as that fucking run was it never even occurred to me to do something like that. I was like "why would you do that??"

Yup the disappointment was pretty bad during and after that race, but I did sleep well that night.

Honestly though, I'm 41 and have a little life experience. I definitely would cut some slack to a 22 yo (yes he gets a DQ and other punishment), but when I was 22 I did some really dumb stuff as well.

I can understand how it happened and the pressures he felt.

Probably I will get flamed for being forgiving or understanding to the guy, but I don't really care and I'm old enough to know people make mistakes....

Fred,

IM Wisconsin was my first, and maybe only IM, and despite part of the bike and most of run not going as planned it never occurred to me to cut any of those out and back sections. Guess I was too happy knowing that I was suffering through the entire course with everyone else. I didn't see anyone do that, but wouldn't put it past anyone either.

- Larry


Larry Durland
Member of Team Firefighter
IM Blog: 34 Weeks & 17 Hours
Twitter: @larrydurland
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
Mike... I do believe you will learn (have learned) from this. I met you on the plane heading over to Kona, and I got the impression that you are not some cheating d-bag, but rather a nice guy. :) Yeah, you did a stupid thing, but it sounds like it was one of those 'heat of the moment' things, and I can understand that as a 22 year old, there is probably a lot more pressure about making your parents and training partners proud than us older athletes put on ourselves.
Having endured a total walkfest at IMC a couple of years ago, I, too, wish you had gutted it out and walked those other miles rather than quit. It sucks so hard to walk (esp for 20+ miles---IM Lou guy who posted earlier--I hear you!), but easier on the soul than DNFing, or ending up making mistakes.
Thanks for coming forward.... hugs!!
Betsy
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
To the OP- I've been watching this thread since early Wednesday morning. Total dbag move on your part, as you have already been told ad nauseum. Props for owning up to it. Hopefully you get your shit together. I wish you the best. To the rest of ST, flame away at my willingness to forgive. I was once 22 and at times it wasn't very pretty.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [fmacdonald850] [ In reply to ]
 
 
Whoopy do he cheated!!!!!
Hey why don't we string him up by his balls and tattoo and upside down ironman logo on his ass, ah better off send him to Afganistan, that will teach him a lesson.

Please people lighten up, give the kid a break, we all did something less than honorable in our lives, and how many of you did he personally effect. Zip/zero.

Sounds like he was under some pressure to perform, bullied from his peers, and that is a huge topic at this moment in the states, and are you okay with that?

Kid, don,t beat yourself up or off for that matter. These haters mean nothing to you, learn and grow.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [obe] [ In reply to ]
 
First off.... 1989, crap I'm old. That's the year I graduated college...

Whatever you think about his cheating, getting called out, apologizing after the fact, etc... You gotta admit that he takes it all really politely. I like the fact that he does come back to answer questions and he doesn't get all defensive. It makes me think he is very sincere and knows that he's got to take one to the gut. Most guys, especially young guys, would be trying to make excuses or justify it somehow.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [obe] [ In reply to ]
 
BT sorry for letting you down after our conversations on the plane, sorry once again to all those offended by my actions, and to all those that persevered until the end of a very long 17 hour day. You are examples of what makes this sport great and as I mentioned I completely lost sight of what this sport is about and was out there for the wrong reasons.
Additionally I wanted to inform you all that as the Timing Director mentioned in a previous post I have written a letter of apology and explanation to the WTC and am sending back my medal and finishers shirt. Additionally since my result is listed as a DQ it is not affecting anyone’s results in any way. If they deem other punishments are necessary I will follow suit.
This by no means clears my conscious or rights what I have done, but I know what I did was beyond wrong and I can finally try and sleep a night.
P.S. for some reason I am unable to respond to private messages so thank you to those who have responded (positively and negatively).
-Mike
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
triathlon1989 wrote:
BT sorry for letting you down after our conversations on the plane, sorry once again to all those offended by my actions, and to all those that persevered until the end of a very long 17 hour day. You are examples of what makes this sport great and as I mentioned I completely lost sight of what this sport is about and was out there for the wrong reasons.
Additionally I wanted to inform you all that as the Timing Director mentioned in a previous post I have written a letter of apology and explanation to the WTC and am sending back my medal and finishers shirt. Additionally since my result is listed as a DQ it is not affecting anyone’s results in any way. If they deem other punishments are necessary I will follow suit.
This by no means clears my conscious or rights what I have done, but I know what I did was beyond wrong and I can finally try and sleep a night.
P.S. for some reason I am unable to respond to private messages so thank you to those who have responded (positively and negatively).
-Mike

From one Mike to another - you screwed up (but who among us hasn't), but from what I can tell - based solely on what you've written - you've seen the error of your ways, you seem genuinely contrite, you've apologized to those people in your life that matter, you've performed a public act of contrition witnessed by all of ST, so it's time to start moving on with your life. Don't beat yourself up too much. We've all screwed up. But learn from your mistake and try to make better decisions in critical situations in the future. Best of luck to you!

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
Mike - Your comments posted here sound sincere to me. You are suffering as a result of your actions on race day and, as you have said, rightly so. I hope and believe that you will stick to the sentiments that you have expressed here. I wish you well. I hope and believe that you will earn the good wishes that you have received from many here.

Grant

 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [mgalluzz] [ In reply to ]
 
I respect the way that you have stood by your friend in this.

Grant

 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [white wizzard] [ In reply to ]
 
Saruman. Please stop posing as Gandalf.

And please stop judging the world based on what you see in the palantir. Sauron has really gotten to you.

Grant

 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
While you have been applauded form admitting guilt I just want to say that you will become and already are a better person for having gone hrough this. Keep your head up, you have a bright future my friend.


"Fear is what drives you in the last part of a marathon in an Ironman. The body is depleted and the mind is fuzzy. Short course racing is driven by power and finese at the end of a race, Ironman demands so much more and is driven by will and mental strength." Chris McCormack

10/28/08 Dev Paul had 400w FTP!!!
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
triathlon1989 wrote:
BT sorry for letting you down after our conversations on the plane, sorry once again to all those offended by my actions, and to all those that persevered until the end of a very long 17 hour day. You are examples of what makes this sport great and as I mentioned I completely lost sight of what this sport is about and was out there for the wrong reasons.
Additionally I wanted to inform you all that as the Timing Director mentioned in a previous post I have written a letter of apology and explanation to the WTC and am sending back my medal and finishers shirt. Additionally since my result is listed as a DQ it is not affecting anyone’s results in any way. If they deem other punishments are necessary I will follow suit.
This by no means clears my conscious or rights what I have done, but I know what I did was beyond wrong and I can finally try and sleep a night.
P.S. for some reason I am unable to respond to private messages so thank you to those who have responded (positively and negatively).
-Mike

Aw, Mike...You're fine. It takes a while to learn that your people will care about you and be proud of you no matter how your race day goes. :) I've seen people do potentially more hurtful things to 'save face' than what you did. And we all know how powerful the cheering crowds are....we might not keep signing up for this crap otherwise! It was a pleasure to meet you and I'm sorry your race didn't go how you hoped. I was mentally cheering you on all day... When you get PMs working, stay in touch.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [treadster] [ In reply to ]
 
well, Nina Kraft confessed too, AFTER SHE WAS CAUGHT. I'm sure these two cheaters wouldn't have confessed if they had not been caught.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Fred Doucette] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm with you, was thinking the same thing. I did dumb stuff AT&T at age also. At 22, you are lookin for approval from your parents more and don't really realize they are going to proud no matter what and for this kid to get to Iona at a young age, they were already proud.

It's still wrong, not making excuses. What matters now is that he learns from it and that remains to be seen. A lot of people dont learn their mistakes.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [mgalluzz] [ In reply to ]
 
He will be banned for life from KONA. This is the WTC policy at KONA but he can do regular races which should make him happy.

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [ericM35-39] [ In reply to ]
 
too funny. because i did that once. running through town made a wrong turn into the finish area. realized my mistake and ran back out to retrace and go the right way. and then found the race director to confess my mistake. he was ok with it, but later i ended up with a hawaii slot. that did cause a problem with one of my competitors. she still calls me a cheater. the topic of this thread was not confused.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
What I don't understand is why, if your intention was to drop out of the race and get a DNF, did you still stay on the course and continue on. If coming from the Energy Lab / Highway, aren't there turns that can be taken to come back to the transition / finish area without staying on course and then getting sucked into the moment to finish?
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
 
Travis R wrote:
elecengrman wrote:
Speaking of cheating...I check ebay every now and again to see if people are selling their finisher medals...check the description on this one.

http://www.ebay.com/...;hash=item20bd87ea2a


OK, I don't get it - why would somebody sell a medal, and who would buy it? Finman? I know I'm being totally stupid here, but I just don't get it.

Maybe someone lost theirs in a house fire or something, and would like to replace it?

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [white wizzard] [ In reply to ]
 
white wizzard wrote:
I was trying to get info about the Kona race and stumbled on this. I was a little pissed that people were patting a course cutter on the back for admitting it only AFTER he got caught so I commented about that.

Uhm , you did see he had already come clean to his family and friends before this posting started. A friend of his directed him here later.

It amazes me how people can't read and remember a short thread on a forum.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
 
Titanflexr wrote:
I'd love to believe RX just made a bad decision in the heat of the moment, has realized the error of his ways, and wishes to make amends. This being ST, let me play DA for a moment:


1. He didn't come forward (to ST or WTC) until he was called out.
2. He didn't just cross the line, he went to the officials and instead of saying "I dropped out; don't count my finish." he made up an elaborate story about losing his chip.
3. By posting his mea culpa here in the way he did, he may only be doing damage control, not contrition. If he's outed and his full name is printed in this forum it starts showing up when future employers and dates google him. Take it from someone else in IT, that'll get your resume shredded.


My personal vote for his punishment: 2 year ban (same as doping) from IMs and "community service" of volunteering both years at an Energy Lab aid station helping those who had the courage to do what he did not.

1) is WRONG he did come forward to friends and family and was writing the letter to WTC before he knew of this thread.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [OC Ben] [ In reply to ]
 
apples and oranges. Nina took something from the other competitors that, to this day, they haven't gotten and can never get back.

The OP committed a victimless crime. If he didn't have his shit together he could've quietly handled this and ignored ST or loudly told us all to go have improper relations with our mothers. I respect what he did, I respect his buddy who stood by him (that's what friends do), and I think the guy needs to move on. It was an impulse decision that blew up and once made was difficult to walk back.

People are allowed to make mistakes-once.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [OC Ben] [ In reply to ]
 
OC Ben wrote:
well, Nina Kraft confessed too, AFTER SHE WAS CAUGHT. I'm sure these two cheaters wouldn't have confessed if they had not been caught.

Except he did confess to his friends and family before he was outed here.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
 

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