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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [ZackCapets] [ In reply to ]
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ZackCapets wrote:
aaronechang wrote:
Why would someone test this before?

Point 1. I'm sure it has been tested at some point, by someone, prior to specialized. Olympic cyclists and TDF caliber athletes have been tested for details far less significant than the effects of surface texture of such a large area of their body.

So if it was tested before, why don't "we" know about it?

When was the last TdF/pro/elite/Olympic cyclist you saw race that had hairy legs?

IOW what incentive is there to test when everyone's legs are already the same hairless state?
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [Watt Matters] [ In reply to ]
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People have been biking for a lot longer than I have been alive...

__________________________

I tweet!

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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [ZackCapets] [ In reply to ]
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Specialized did the testing in their own wind tunnel - sounds like the test was done on a lark and the engineers were extremely surprised at the results so shared it with the rest of the world. Look in the first few posts for the details and link to video on testing protocol.
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Well...

Raced my sprint last week shaved. Expected a swim split of 12:45, and had a swim split of 12:00, and it felt quite easy.

possible other contributing factors:
  1. My predicted time was based on my performance last year and training done in drag shorts.
  2. Flip Turns! I usually struggle with them, but in 750 short course meters, I only open turned 3 times
  3. Favorable land draw: I was placed right next to a guy that is usually just a tiny bit faster than I. Swam just behind him for 10 laps before I pulled ahead of him, and ultimately pulled away from him, but I may have had a draft for the first part of the race (we were seeded 2/lane so we were both right next to the rope).

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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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My race went well for the swim and bike. I was 30 seconds faster than I had swam in practice for the 750m short course. There were 8 per lane and I was the 6th person. Swam the first 100m and was in first position then two passed me at the wall as it was a bit of controlled chaos. We then swam like that for the rest of the distance. That was the fastest 750m I have done all year.

Passed 10-12 people in transition. Glasses, helmet, bike and gone.

The bike was 2 full minutes faster then the two times I had ridden the course before the race. I was not expecting to ride that quickly. I did however over-cook the bike which bit me in the ass on the run.

In training I did the distance on the course twice and pushed it as much as I could but with full hair on the legs. I was wearing my aero helmet on race day, fully shaved and wearing my Sugoi Velocity II Tri Suit. Not sure which contributed the most.
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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This came up recently in a web article:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-curious-case-of-the-cyclists-unshaved-legs/article20370814/


Slowtwitch was referenced - any more anecdotal results to share?


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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [Khyron] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps we all need to shave a cute little Mohawk into the trailing edge of our legs and arms. It will help the flows rejoin and save another five watts...

Could be a great design of experiments to see how wide the Mohawk needs to be verse your ranking on Sasquatch scale.

Not sure if this should be pink or not.
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [AEllswrt93] [ In reply to ]
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AEllswrt93 wrote:
Perhaps we all need to shave a cute little Mohawk into the trailing edge of our legs and arms. It will help the flows rejoin and save another five watts...


Could be a great design of experiments to see how wide the Mohawk needs to be verse your ranking on Sasquatch scale.

Not sure if this should be pink or not.


Boy, do I have just the thing for you.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...erformance_4255.html
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Glad I was not the only one thinking pink.
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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too true
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [Khyron] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
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It says "A newspaper in the States is reporting". WTF!? It's pretty clearly a Canadian newspaper. Even the logo is a Maple Leaf. But at least they're reporting that someone else is reporting on it, weeks after a bunch of people reported on it. Nice effort.
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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Lol. I didn't even read it, just mindlessly pasted the link.
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [ZackCapets] [ In reply to ]
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ZackCapets wrote:

Skipped most of the thread, so this may have already been addressed by the folks at Specialized, but here are a number of answers:

Point 1. I'm sure it has been tested at some point, by someone, prior to specialized. Olympic cyclists and TDF caliber athletes have been tested for details far less significant than the effects of surface texture of such a large area of their body.

So if it was tested before, why don't "we" know about it?

You should read the thread. There is discussion on previous testing/papers and John Cobb himself even comments.

ZackCapets wrote:
Point 2: First and foremost, wind tunnel test data is proprietary. The folks paying for the test own the data. Due to the enormous cost of obtaining this data, and competition-sensitive nature of the data (think: speed on the race track, being able to market production vehicle MPG/appearance), there is far greater value in keeping the data a secret and maintaining the competitive advantages than there is in releasing the data. The idea of releasing wind tunnel test data with competition-sensitive implications publicly (aside from the work of NASA/NACA or universities) probably didn't come about until fairly recently as "consumers" such as triathletes, motorsports hobbyists, etc. began shelling out the money for tunnel time, to obtain data that is of more value to them (as an individual) than to a competitor, or perhaps has some intrinsic value to the community that does not preclude the individual from obtaining a competitive advantage. Motorsports teams pay millions of dollars per year to book tunnel time, supply test assets and equipment, and to pay for engineers and staff to execute the tests, postprocess data, etc. The data collected influences whether or not teams win races, which is worth MANY millions of dollars per year. Giving away data is essentially financially damaging because it erodes the ROI on the tunnel testing investment. Basically: I believe that the phenomenon of people who expect no financial ROI on tunnel testing is relatively recent, and this expectation allows them to release data. Now, the way that cycling/triathlon goods producers have found a way, ostensibly to increase revenue, by releasing expensive data is interesting--by using the data to market the product to a niche group of well educated consumers, the producers are recouping their tunnel time investment by doing the exact opposite of what most commercial wind tunnel users do. But there are still people in cycling who need "wind tunnel secrets" to make money, namely professional cyclists. Why would a pro cyclist release their data, their drag-reduction ideas, or their proprietary equipment to their competition? If "shaved legs vs. hairy legs" was tested before, I suspect the data was not released for this very reason.

For some additional perspective:
Commercial wind tunnels (and their staff) by and large exist only to facilitate the test. The information privacy requirements dictate that the tunnel staff (who will see equipment/parts/pieces/data from multiple teams) do not share this information between teams, so they necessarily cannot be involved in making changes, evaluating data, etc. The tunnel staff are contractually bound to secrecy, and it is taken EXTREMELY seriously. They are simply there to man the ship. Customers bring their own staff to write the test plans and test sequences, make changes/adjustments throughout the test, and evaluate results). This is where A2 (and FASTER too, I guess, though I don't have firsthand experience there) bridge the gap between the "commercial wind tunnel" and the end consumer. Like it's "big brother" Aerodyn, A2 supplies an operator that will control the wind tunnel, but unlike its entirely commercially oriented counterpart, the A2 operator also fulfills somewhat of the role of data collector/analyst, and has historically employed a person experienced with aerodynamic bike fitting to help with changes.

I'm not really sure what your point is here. I see this exercise as marketing and relations building. Specialized is giving out free information, while promoting their products, to build good will and trust. They own their wind tunnel so the majority of their costs for producing this data are already sunk.
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Re: Shaved Legs = 15 watts? [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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The "free" speed on the bike and in the pool are nice things, but for me they are additional bonus's on top of the real reason why I shave the legs:
I am notoriously bad at heat-dissipation (I did a 5hr20' at 70.3 IM St-Croix in 2013, 2hr05 for the 1/2 marathon ....) and for me the biggest advantage of shaving is heat-dissipation.

The removal of all hair from legs, chest and armpits (I'd rate myself a 5 on the wookie-scale) makes me feel better during races (especially during the run) and it helped me to already secure a IM70.3 WC slot for next year. I did similar race-training as last year, yet continously run at target pace during races whilst other races, I start at target-pace and within 30-45 min, the wheels start coming off due to overheating.

This is how bad I can handle the heat:
On a indoor-training ride, I can easily loose >1ltr of sweat /hr....
Running outdoors in sunny weather with temp of 15-17°C is a high as I can tolerate in the sun without pace or HR suffering badly. When it is overcast, I can tolerate up to 20-22°C. Anything temperatures higher then that and my heart-rate jumps up by >10bpm for same pace and soon thereafter the pace drops and the heart-rate remains level. I guess I am not genetically programmed to perform well at Kona but more for Norseman ;)

I consider myself fairly lean: 1m79 and 68kg (9% BF, measured by scanner 2,5 weeks ago when I was at 69kg)

S.

ps: Another bonus for shaving is that I can finally see the real tuned and hard-earned shape of my calfs and quads on my twig-sized legs ;)
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