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Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround
 
Alright slowtwitch, I need some sympathy/advice

Long Version:
I competed in the HFP Mohican endurance festival this past Sunday. Small half distance tri in mid Ohio, Miserable/rainy conditions, but thats besides the point. I had a decent swim (for me), came out of the water 7th, had a few mechanical issues on the bike, but still pulled out the fastest bike split of the day and was 1st into T2 and onto the run course. Results agree with this, as my swim+T1+bike+T2 is 1 min 15 sec faster than the next closest athlete. Feeling good on the run, thinking I'm in 1st place and about to bring home my first overall win at a triathlon event. Run is a 3 loop out and back course that turns around up in the park, out of view of any spectators or race officials, with NO timing mat at the turn around or anywhere on the run course. Now I was being very attentive to my surroundings as I wanted to make sure I held on to my 1st place position and nobody passed me. I am adamant nobody passed me on the run. I cross the finish line thinking I have won the race, only to check the standings to see the guy who came in 1 min 15 sec after me on the bike ran a 1:23:48 and finished almost 6 min before me (I ran 1:29:29). I'm smelling BS. I put in a message to the racing company. The timing company says there is nothing they can do as all the timing mats were crossed in order, but they can't say whether he cut the course or not due to the lack of a mat at the turn around. I'm waiting to hear back from the RD to see if anything further can be done, but not very hopeful. I was thinking the only way to settle this would be via Garmin data or the like, however after doing some Facebook investigation, it appears this athlete in question did not have a watch on during the run... am i SOL? It's not like there is money on the line or anything, I just wanted the satisfaction of my first OA triathlon win.

Short Version:
Thought I won a race, results say I got second. Out and back runs should have timing mats at the turn around.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Are there at least splits for each lap? If he cut the course only on one lap, then you should see a lap that is much faster than all the others. If he cut all three, then that won't work.

Do his previous results support that kind of run?

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Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
 
No lap splits, timing mats were leaving T2 then nothing until finish. From what I can tell 1:23 would be a pretty stellar run for him (especially after that brutal bike ride). I honestly have no hard evidence at this point other than the fact I am sure I was not passed on the run. Which is why I am not expecting the RD to take much action...
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
That's messed up. I'd be pissed too. Sounds like you had a great race though sub 1:30 run is pretty badass IMHO.

“Bloom wherever you are planted"
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
This happened in a small HIM i was in a few years ago. It was a three loop run course with no timing mat at the turn around. I left T2 at least 2 minutes ahead of this certain individual. During that run we should have passed each other three times. We passed only passed twice and each time they had not made up any ground on me. I was shocked to find that this person finished 20 minutes ahead of me with a run split they have never run close to in the past. I sarcastically commented to the person on their astonishing run split. Their only response was "Yeah, I love doing this stuff" and quickly walked away. The sad thing is they knocked another person off the podium.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Currently the results do not show splits, maybe the timing company has those to check and can see if one doesn't line up as suggested.

That being said there appeared to be an elite group and AG? Since you were not in Elite could you still win OA? it seems that both you and this person beat all those in the elite wave (by a bit congrats!) but since you were not then your placing generally would only count towards AG, which this person was not in your AG and you still got first in your AG.

I guess what I"m saying is it matters if they cheated, but it may not really matter for your results if they did or not.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Sounds like you're SOL and you'd remember him passing you, I'm sure... that's where a lead cyclist(for the leader) and timing mats at turnaround come in handy. Stinks but sounds like you had a great race in spite of where you sit in the standings. Congrats on that!
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
there was a gal in the half duathlon with an even better run than the fellow that "beat" you
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
My first takeaway from this is that's a terribly run race. I'd never do a race again that was set up like that. Seriously? Three loops and no timing mats except at the finish? That's just unacceptable. Second if you look at the athlinks of the person you're calling out it does appear that he had an exceptional run. But it's not so beyond the pale as to get action from the RD, unless timing mats really were there and the splits show cheating. You're probably better off dropping it. "The time I got totally screwed" makes a better-group ride story than the "time I totally destroyed the field," anyway.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [mrtopher1980] [ In reply to ]
 
Yeah, this is technically true. I still got the first place medal for my age group. The "Elite" group started in our swim wave, so I like to think I was racing them as well. I guess it is mostly a matter of feeling angry at cheating though.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
 
Haha, I didn't notice that. She crushed it.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Why didn't you say something to the RD and the timing company, and possibly to the guy who "outran" you while you were on site?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Was the run truly out and back along the same path? Surely you would have passed him in the opposite direction and known how far behind you he was at least a couple times? Unless he cut the course on the first loop, in which case he would have been ahead of you from before you made the first run turn-around.

I definitely would have said something to the RD and the athlete.

Pretty sad that you 'won' the race and end up with a 2nd place AG medal. Nice race though.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Was it newbz? Did one of your bike shoes disappear?
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Since I know his father (who also raced that day) I'll ask him what happened.

With that course you should have seen him at every turn-around though...5 times and you never saw him?

http://www.hfpracing.com/.../mef/mef-map-run.pdf
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Assuming I found the right guy in Athlinks it looks like he's at least a decent runner. A lot of 5k times in the mid 17's to mid-18's. Most recent result though appeared to be 2012.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm guessing the answer you'll get will be either:

1. he won fair and square and the OP must have just missed being overtaken among other shorter distance racers (if the other distance runners were out on the run course at the same time)

2. OMG he feels terrible as he now realizes he must have only completed 2 run loops.

Big question is does that half marathon split fit with his abilities? That's a very fast HIM run split. If no, then I would put my money on the 2nd response above, now that he realizes he's been 'outed'.

ETA - actually, on second thoughts, the "only did 2 run loops" doesn't work for this guy, as that would have put his proper 3 loop time over 2 hours for the run, which seems a lot slower than his abilities (this may be the explanation for the female duathlete though). So he either won fair and square, or he cut the run short. Maybe the explanation will be he turned around each time at one of the earlier turns, thinking (yeah, right) that it was the 13.1 turn around.
Last edited by: Kay Serrar: Jul 1, 15 9:09
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
Yep, so many RD's cut corners. Or, they really have no idea about this sport and what some folks will do if you have something like a multiple lap stuff.
I had a top racer start in the swim wave in front of me but when I challenged him, he gave me BS that he could swim a 20. When the RD had no
timing mats as folks went in the water, folks can cheat this way also.

I had another race this year where all the top racers cut into T2 under the yellow tape and did not do the full T2 bike in loop. I talked to the RD on Sunday
and suggested he needed to have folks starting at places where racers could cut the T2 short and then be DQed in future races.

So yep, I see all the time how so many folks cheat.

.

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Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
 
I'll be interested to hear his explanation. The person I thought was in second, behind me, is the guy who finished 1st in the elite division. I timed him to be about 9 min behind me after I made the turn at the far end during the third lap. I saw nobody within 2 min of me after the 1st turn around, suggesting perhaps the first lap is where he missed the actual turnaround.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [logella] [ In reply to ]
 
Agreed, he appears to be a decent runner. For reference though my 5k PR is 17:10. I'm not saying a 1:23:xx is impossible especially since my garmin had the run slightly short.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
 
Does HFP do their own timing, or do they contract out the timing? A good timing company will sit down with RD at beginning and look over course to find problem areas, mainly out and back sections where a "cheater" mat could be useful.

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Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [sentania] [ In reply to ]
 

Was it newbz? Did one of your bike shoes disappear?

Threads that died too soon.

 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
I was racing. I finished fourth. I watched him slowly gain on you each lap. There are several witnesses to corroborate my story. He didn't cheat. Ask Tim bowman and Cheryl Cheney, both veteran triathletes in the southwest Ohio area. They watched him slowly gain on you as well. Again, he did not cheat.
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [Tcorr44] [ In reply to ]
 
This is one of the most frustrating threads I have ever had the displeasure of reading on slowtwitch because the person who beat you is on my triathlon team and also happens to be one of the nicest and most honest guys I have ever met. Yeah...sure...he's on my triathlon team so you think I am biased but it is the absolute truth. He has worked his ass off to get to the level he is currently at while also raising a family. When he told us tonight that someone was calling him out on slowtwitch we all lost it. He was very upset about it as he obviously is not used to his character being attacked in a public forum.

Let me repeat again...one of the nicest most honest guys I have ever met.

Last...I have to say...if you had an issue with it post race you should have approached him. He would have happily discussed it with you as he had nothing to hide. In fact, he mentioned you two talked briefly and it was never mentioned.
Last edited by: badgertri: Jul 1, 15 19:11
 
Re: Screwed by Lack of Timing Mat at Run Turnaround [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
 
Hey this is Chris, the guy you are accusing of cheating. First of all I’d like to point out how immature and irresponsible it is to accuse someone of cheating on a public forum without any evidence that your claim is remotely correct.
I’m sorry you thought you won when you really didn’t, that must be disappointing. I know exactly who you are and exactly where I passed you. I had people giving me splits between you and I, so I too was very aware of my surroundings.
I have competed in the 70.3 World Championships in Vegas and have qualified for the sprint World Championships in Chicago this year. I am not only capable of that run split – I accomplished that run split. My only regret is that I have no Garmin data as evidence because as everyone on my race team knows, I never where a watch during the race.
Now instead of spending the evening with by family I am on Slowtwitch defending a ludicrous accusation. A word to the wise – never put someone on trial by Slowtwitch especially when you’re wrong. Accept your second place and move on.
This will be my one and only response. I have far more important things going on in life than to sit on the forum and undergo trial-by-slowtwitch.
 

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