Yes, pretty sure that is correct. I just got the lowest version from Dicks, and went for a 6 miler. Very impressed with them. I've been wearing the brooks glycerin for 5 years now, and I think I found a new shoe!

This was true of the first two versions. Saucony has now nerf'd the Speed (much heavier, worse upper, etc.) to increase the differentiation :(.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

The Endorphin Speed (ES) is much softer than the Pro. The Pro has a somewhat firm ride and not surprisingly does not test as well as Nike VF/AF or ASICS Metaspeed. The ES versions 1 and 2 are very light. Believe in the Run called ES the best training shoe in the past 10 years. For me personally it’s the best shoe ever. Not sure what the above poster means that Saucony screwed up the shoe and made the ES heavier. That’s not true at all— version 2 is virtually identical to version 1 and version 3 has not been released yet.

They have previewed the 3, you can see the reviews on youtube. It’s a very different shoe than the 1/2, which to the OP’s question was very close to the Pro (and a great training and budget racing shoe imo). Got the 1s for $100 on sale as the 2s were coming out.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

First of all there are no reviews of the ES3 on YouTube. They are just previews, nobody has really run in it yet. It’s not slated to be released until July 22 and will be a massive 8g heavier, hardly noticeable. I agree with your premise though, because a lot of times in the past shoe companies have screwed good shoes but the verdict is still out on this one. However to the OP, try out the ES 2 and possibly stock up on versions one and two of the ES while you can. Because it is quite possible the shoe could be screwed up in version 3.

Thanks... I run in Saucony Kinvara but have been eyeing the Endorphin line for the upcoming race season along with everyone else (;

Three are a few things that cause the similarities and the differences.

First off they are the same midsole. The Speed and pro use the same midsole, same foam. The differences are in the plates. At Zoot we used both nylon based and glass based (full carbon) pieces. The nylon versions outside the shoe and then inside the midsole have some flex. The full carbon have almost zero flex inside the shoe. That is partially why the Speed feels softer. There is more give in that plate. Second is the upper. The Speed upper is built like a training shoe. A durable upper with double layer mesh, and padding in the collar and tongue. The mesh also has some stretch for those long miles. The Pro is built like a racing flat. Single layer mesh almost no stretch and very little padding.

Speed vs Kinvara
The Kinvara set the standard for lightweight. Remember it came out during the minimalism craze. Saucony at the time incorporated some minimalist characteristics. 4mm midsole offset, flat bottom, one piece midsole. When the Kinvara first came out the dominating lightweight shoe of the time especially on course in Kona was the DS Trainer/Noosa from Asics. In just a couple years the Kinvara took over. It became the #1 shoe in Kona because it was light, soft and supportive.
The running industry is full of friendships across brands. The first view of the Hoka Clifton brought the banter to pitch level between friends at Saucony and friends at Hoka. It was clear the Clifton was taking cues from the Kinvara. There were other shoes like the Kinvara but only the Clifton started to take some share.

As shoe companies go. You have legacy shoes that pay the bills and keep runners coming back. The Kinvara is one of those shoes. It’s a hard shoe to drop out of the line. When Saucony created the Endorphin line they grabbed tech and design from across the brands. Speed Roll vs. Meta Rocker. Pebax based foam - same foam slightly different molding process as Nike. Zoom Fly had a nylon plate so the Endorphin Speed has a nylon plate. However they got to the Speed, they created a new monster. Eventually the Kinvara will fade away because the Speed will take it’s place as the legacy shoe. You can see it already. They took the Endorphin Pro 3 to the maximum level set my IAAF and did a great deal more to keep up with the competition. They did very little to the Speed because they simply can’t screw it up right now. That is how important that shoe is to them. When I say the Kinvara will fade away I don’t think Saucony has the guts to kill it. It will be the runners who do it. Each year the runners will buy less and less. And each year the runners will buy more and more speeds.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Would it kill them to add a loop on the heel so I could pull it on quickly in T2?
#triathlon

Thanks for the great synopsis Dave. I sell a lot of the endorphin line and also use them all. Your descriptions help describe the differences well. I certainly hope they don't mess too much with the Speed, Pro and Shift as the new product launch info we got from Saucony scares me a bit....

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Kiwami Racing Team

Anyone got feedback on the Endorphin Shift? I bought the Pro v1 on a $100 closeout for my race shoe and am digging it - now I want to pick up either the Speed or the Shift for my everyday training shoe (which will replace the Clifton v7 I'm using now). What say you on Shift vs Speed for a daily trainer?

On paper that's correct. Running in them the Speed is softer and feesl better. The Pro is firmer and has a little more "pop"

I bought the Pro V1 and the Shift at the same time. I like them both but they are two totally different shoes. The Shift reminds me a bit of early Hokas. Very plush. I am enjoying them. They have been my long run shoe the last two weeks and I can't see that changing. They are super comfortable but don't feel too heavy or dead. I'm looking to buy another Shift V1 to add to my rotation. The Pro feels much more like a racing flat.

I have done nearly all of my running for the last three years in Nike Epic React but they killed that shoe and the replacements are not filling my needs. Before that I was a Kinvara guy since the Kinvara 1. I think the Endorphin series is going to be my new shoe. Unfortunately, with the Pro, I don't feel that "pop" that I get from the Nike 4% or Next%. I need to use them in a 5K and see how fast they really feel. I might still be racing in Nikes.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

I have 3 pairs of Kinvara in my rotation right now. You just described the direction I am heading to a Tee

Am I following correctly that you're running in the Endorphin Shift as a replacement for the Epic React? I'm in the same boat of trying to find a good replacement trainer since Nike killed the Epic React.

for 20 years i have always trained in a stability shoe and raced in whatever light weight neutral show i could find that was light yet still had some cover for my arch. Asics, Brooks, Adidas etc. then the super shoes came out and definitely the difference on the Nextgen% was apparent but i hate nike so was interested in other brands catching up to Nike.

then saucony launched this series of shoe. I have been rotating from the Shift to the Speed2 for training for over a year now and just yesterday doing a hard 25K rolling terrain run was thinking "is this the best shoe i have EVER run in?" The answer is, yes. 100% yes it is.

Now of course as a run junkie i am very curious to trying Asics Metaspeed Sky and Adidas Adizero Adios Pro2 to compare to the Endorphin Pro2 i have in closet for racing season this spring. Any insights in these comparisons (not to take thread off topic but...) i would be indebted! I have spring marathon upcoming!

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@rhyspencer

Love the Speed (V1), have three pair, bought the Pro (V1) when they were on sale for my race shoe.

Two questions:

1. Does the shift have any kind of support for pronation? I’m currently in the Guide for that reason until my Achilles heals up.

2. Anyone notice a difference between Speed 1 and 2? I know there are no changes to the sole but I’ve worn them twice around the house to break them in and my Achilles kills me after.

I’d love to stick with Endorphin line

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Team Zoot

This might not be relevant but the Speeds can be a little polarising. Some people love them others struggle. I think part of that is where your weight is. The back of the shoe is pretty tall and not that wide. I think it's possible the people who love them (myself included) are forefoot/midfoot runners. More weight to the back and they can be unstable. We might move our weight distribution around at different speeds.

That is a long winded way of saying when you walk around the house in them are you on your heels? If so your Achilles might be doing a lot of work to keep them from falling to either side.

The Shift has a wider base and a supportive tpu heel counter that dips in similar to a stability post. So yes the Shift is quite supportive.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

My personal view, the Metaspeed Sky is on par in bounce and feel to the Next% but the heel fit is much more secure. The adios Pro is the stiffest of the bunch in the forefoot. Personally it feel great leaning into a healthy pace but it is hard to roll through that forefoot at slower paces.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

That’s interesting but you are probably right. Never really thought about that. They didn’t feel terrible when I ran but can’t say they felt super stable either. I’ve been working on transitioning to midfoot strike under the guidance of a PT / run coach. Thanks!

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Team Zoot

Thanks for the info Dave! I might give the Metaspeed Sky a shot.

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Team Zoot

It’s a very different shoe. The Epic React was my do-everything shoe from speed work to long runs and everything in between. I think the Saucony Endorphin Series will replace the Epic but the Shift doesn’t cover all of my needs. It’s a great long run shoe….

ETA. My first run in the Shift I thought they weren’t going to work…. My feet actually hurt. But after that first run they have been great.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Cool thanks. Thinking about trying the Endorphin Speed as an everyday trainer.

Epic React was maybe the best all-around trainer I’ve ever worn. I’m bummed they killed it.

I got the Pro 2 first and that led me to get the Speed 2. The Pro feels a bit less stable to me than the Speed and I think I might like the upper better on the Speed. I think it's that thin upper on the Pro that makes them feel ever so slightly bigger to me where the Speed fits like I'd expect in my size. But the Pro does feel nice when if I'm running faster, I need to wear the Speed some more but I think I'll keep using it the most day to day.

I find their naming convention confusing, maybe too late to change now. But to me, it seems the Speed should have been called something else given that they have a shoe like the Pro.