I can't speak for individual races, but I do know that the following is going on and most of this is "behind the scenes" stuff:

1. Insurance rates across the board have increased significantly

2. The Municipalities are strapped for cash and I suspect are increaseing their permit/sanctioning fees for road closures and other things such as payment for police time etc . .

3. The overall quality-of-experience quotient has increased significantly with triathlon and thus even entry level and first time events feel they need to compete and offer ALL the bells and whistles. What I mean by this is that peoples first or second exposure to triathlon may be a big Ironman race or an IM qualifier. This is good in getting a quality first exposure to the sport. Problem is that the expectations are no running high that ALL races are like this!

4. Costs for race hardware/software - cones, barriers, banners, race timing, online entry etc . . are all going up.

Bottom line: It's hard to put on a simple race anymore. A race will not survive if your idea is getting a couple hundred people out, drawing a start/finish line in chalk on the road, firing the start gun and timing it all with your Timex wrist watch is your idea of a race. Their is WAY more to it than that.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Though one thing I've heard about the IMFL 2004+ negotiations was that IMNA was increasing or trying to increase the fee the race site had to pay to get the race there.

Online entry costs are paid as an additional fee by the consumer.

Insurance fees going up, yeah. There's probably pressure on municipalities to absorb a good chunk of permits/police costs in the name of "economic and tourism development"

Let the market bear what it will and all, but from what I've seen of IMFL, you get more bells and whistles here for the good $40-$50 sprints than you do for IMFL. Well you don't get the jumbotron, but the food's far superior.

Totally agree Jill. I do a lot of Set-Up Inc races here in the Mid-Atlantic/South East. Those 1/2 IM entry fees are 1/2 of the costs of IMNA sanctioned races such as Eagleman/Buffalo Springs.

The amenities are the same. Race packet stuff, food, etc is all on par if not better than IMNA. The race is sanctioned by USAT, marshalled, etc....the only difference is the fact that the Set-Up 1/2 did not have Kona slots. Does that justify a price that's nearly 50% higher? I'm sure Set-Up has to cover the same amount of insurance as an IMNA race...so that really can't be the issue. So is IMNA taking advantage and gouging the consumer?

"Insurance rates across the board have increased significantly"

If the race is sanctioned by USAT then I believe the race director gets insurance, thru USAT, for around $100 for the event.

Willy in Pacifica

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Willy in Pacifica

"If the race is sanctioned by USAT then I believe the race director gets insurance, thru USAT, for around $100 for the event. """

As Ricky Ricardo has said..."someone has some splainin to do..."

Depends on who you talk to. Graham Fraser insists all costs are going to provide a better event. And he does make a point that they could gouge by raining prices to $500 or more as the market could sustain it. But the fact remains that WTC is a corporation that is currently making a lot of money. Based on entry fees to comparable non-WTC events, I think IMNA/WTC is probably making $150+ per competitor per event. When you figure how many races are signing up with 1500-2000 people that is a pretty good sum. Separating exactly how much goes to WTC and how much goes to IMNA is more difficult.

As for the qualifiers, I believe there is a fixed cost of something like $20,000 to get IM slots, with additional variable costs for the number of slots and numbers of competitors. $50,000 per event is probably not an unreasonable estimate. There are obviously some bureacratic costs involved on the WTC end with these qualifiers, but they generate a lot of money,too.

I still find it fascinating that so many people are still willing to spend so much money to race IM brand races. Even folks who aren't that wealthy. It's so amazing I cannot think of any analogy.

An advantage of living in North America( Although some would argue it's a disadvantage) is having consumer choice, and clearly when it comes to participating in enduance events we have choices. You can run in the NYC marathon($100+) or a smaller local event( about $50) you can do a big Ironman traithlon race( several $hundred) or you can do small local races( $50 - $100) Ergo, you can buy the Toyota Corolla for $15,000 which will work perfectly fine or you can buy the $50,000 Range Rover with $20,000+ worth of features you will never use. The choice is yours.

Right now triathletes have a choice, and right now the numbers overwhelmingly say that they prefer the more expensive races. Strange, but I also see a high number of those very expensive SUV's in the parking lots at those expensive triathlons. Could there be a connection there at some level?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

IMNA and Graham Fraser have the right to charge whatever they want for their event. It's up to us whether or not we decide to pay. However, I don't know if I agree with the the idea that all of the costs are going to provide for a better event. Since 1998 the IMNA events have gotten more crowded and the amenities have stayed relatively the same if not worse. That crew also claims that they put the athlete first..but it's getting awfully expensive to do a 1/2 IM event when it's costing close to $200...

I also take my hat off to IMNA for the charity fundraising they provide for the communities that help with the race. However, how much of our race fees go to charities? Isn't that done by the athletes and the people they get to sponsor and give $$??

It's unfortunate for those who want to go to Hawaii have to do it through IMNA/WTC and pay a premium to do so. And I wonder if it's being taken advantage of...

If youu paid $15K for the Corolla, you paid too much. Got our 2004 for $13,800 plus sales tax and plate transfer. :) Though the family race day vehicle is the Passat because my bike fits in the trunk/back seat better.

As for charity, yeah the community fund slots do good work, but I'd also like to hear about how part of the general entry fees go to charity, which is pretty much standard for other races down here. As is the post race beer tent. (Heck, a RD down here gets a reputation as being cheap if they've got a two beer ticket limit)

I don't mind paying for something First Class. What I do mind is paying for something first class, and then getting asked to pay for dinner on the flight as well.

I've got no great beef with IMFL. Volunteered there this year, and will be back volunteering next year. (I get to fufill that annual obligation in a way that fits my work schedule) But it's not my thing, and I figure I'm heading to Duke or Clermont for my first long distance event.

But if you want a shot to go to Kona, you have to fork over the dough and go through IMNA. So unfortunately there isn't much of a choice in that case and I wonder if IMNA is taking advantage of that fact.

And yes I agree you see alot of expensive cars in the lots at these races. By continuing to raise the fees at his events Graham Fraser is in a way changing the demographics of those who do his races. Not everyone can continue to afford the $175 1/2 entry fees or $375+ Ironman entry fees. So it's getting out of the reach of some people who cannot afford those kind of fees.

Not to mention that IMNA has said they know and plan for about a 10% drop out rate according to their "policies" keep most or all of that money. At $375, $400 for 2004 that gets pretty expensive for a non race. Yea one can say they have all these expenses but their race is full and they have earned in interest my entry fee over the year they had 2000 entrants $374.I think the USAT really needs to step up to this issue along with some kind of transfer policy for this. It's basically a consumer issue and we are allowing ourselves to get ripped off. With 47,000 members it needs to be pursued. I have felt this way for a while. But just 2 weeks out of IMFLA broke my rib and the DR as well as many triathletes agreed wouldn't let me compete. No that I could but $375 is a lot of money to just throw or give away to IMNA. Everyone else airlines etc was able to retrun all the $$$.

According to race write up they had a record # of competitors even with the few hundred dropouts. So they certainly didn't miss or spend anything extra for me. By that point all their cost had been covered yet after contacting them on more than one occasion they are keeping the money.

In the current Tri Magazine Graham Fraiser talks just about this saying they are not captalistic etc. But they are.

I think as long as people are willing to throw their money away with no guarantees they have it made.

IMNA can charge whatever they like for the 2'x4' space at the bike rack and all the water I can drink. That's the American way. But why are people dying because they can't get into IMbla bla. I was going to sign up for IMfla but I have a problem with giving up use of my $400 for 365 days... so I'm out.

I will be doing either Vineman full, CAMan or Great Floridian this year and have no negative / regretful feelings towards these races versus the WTC alternatives. IM is a descriptive term for a distance. The only thing that the WTC has over the other IM distance races is a better marketing / advertising department. The WTC is very good at what they do and that makes them a lot of money - God bless them.

The people that worsen the problem of WTC races selling out in 3 minutes versus the other IM distance races staying open til race day are the Tri magazines, websites, etc. They give extensive reporting on the WTC events and very little coverage on the smaller IM distance races. Giving more media to the smaller IM events would naturally create a buzz and create more demand.

... but that's just my opinion.

Very true OCTri. Races like Duke, Vineman, and GFT get little or no press from the leading publications which further draws people to the IMNA events.

I've heard great things about these races that aren't put on by IMNA and look forward to doing them.

The non M-Dot IM races draw very little in the way of pro racers and do not get the press for this reason. Both Inside Triathlon and Triathlete gear 90% of their race coverage to the pro's.

Now for other parts of this threat ....this is my thinking on a few previous posts ....

#1 Someone made the comment of not wanting to support charities thru their race fee's. IMNA uses these "donations" to charities as vehicles to get a set amount of volunteers. IE The Madison Boys and Girls Club is VERY likely to get as many people out there if they are getting $10K as a donation. Its just getting the community behind the race.

#2 There are many races at many price points. IMNA tries to put on a race with the most volunteers and the most perks. I have heard stories at other IM races of non existant aid stations ..volunteers lacking at certain times etc. Its just about what we demand out of the experience in relation to what we are willing to pay for it. When it comes down to it ....my $416 spent on entry are going to be the smallest expenditure in my race experience.



Matt LaPointe

IMFL 2002 16:40

IMLP 2004 ????

IM WI 2004 ?????

>>IMNA uses these "donations" to charities as vehicles to get a set amount of volunteers.<<

As do most other races, of all distances. Ultramax gives all the money to charity, as does Duke Blue Devil.

>>I have heard stories at other IM races of non existant aid stations ..volunteers lacking at certain times etc.<<

Same thing happens at IMNA and WTC races. Shoot, I know someone who had his very expensive bike "forever misplaced" from the TA at IMFL (first year). He had to make a stink to get reimbursement and never did get his bike back.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

lot of interesting points, and I don't really have one to make but will offer a couple of observations.

I certainly don't like the high entry fees for Ironman races, or races of any distance for that matter. To say that the price increases over the years are not justifyed because the service hasn't increased, well I ask you this, have you gotten a raise at work in the past 5 years? Everyone wants to make more money, including professional race directors.

Some people want to go to Hawaii, and aside from the lottery, the only way in is through one of the "official" Ironman or half Ironman races. Not necessarily IMNA events though. As CLM has pointed out before, sometimes a foriegn Ironman can be cheaper than a domestic (US) Ironman. I didn't believe it at first and checked and added it up. I included everything I could think of and really checked things out. I found that for me, flying from San Diego, it was a total of $43 cheaper for me to go to Ironman New Zealand for a week than it was to go to IM Lake Placid for a week. Hard to believe but it is true. That included everything from entry fee, flights, accomadations, car rentals if needed and food.

I've been to a lot of Ironman races over the years, as a competitor and a spectator/coach. At some of the non IMNA races I think the finish line is a bit of a let down compared to IMNA races. Whether you are finishing in 9 hours or 16 hours, it is a huge accomplishment. I think it is a bit of a let down to make that final 100 yards at 11:50pm and only have a handful of people there to share it with you. At every IMNA race that I have been too, the crowds are actually bigger late at night then they are earlier in the day for the first finishers.

I know this much, high entry fees across the board at a variety of distances has really made me more carefully consider my race schedule and I do a lot less races now because of the higher fees.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

[quote]I think it is a bit of a let down to make that final 100 yards at 11:50pm and only have a handful of people there to share it with you. [/quote]

Actually, I sort of like the idea of having my wife and one guy with a stop watch their as I cross the line (hopefully earlier than 11:50, though). I was just a little boy when the inaugural Ironman was run and I'd love to "re-live" that experience. Let's go old-school!

-Jay in SL, MI

Excellent point Mike. I'm seriously looking into going to IM Austria this year for some of those very reasons. Plus it would be interesting to see how other Kona qualifying events stack up against IMNA's approach.

Right now IM Austria is running at $350 USD, a bit below IMNA events. I'm truly looking forward to experiencing the European way of Ironman.

Alot of what we're paying for in IMNA events is the commercialization of the Ironman. It's getting to the point where it's a huge business and the event directors are being capitalists...they're able to get that much so they charge that much.

And excellent point about getting raises over the years. My question is the rise in prices over the years of 40% or so by IMNA in my mind just doesn't make sense. A rise of $5/10/$20 over the years makes sense but to go from $250 to $375 to $400 is quite a jump!

Jay, you are a man of my own heart.

I think it comes down to what you are looking for - if you want the brand name, the glitz, and the Triathlete magazine coverage, go ahead and do the WTC races. But don't complain about there being no alternatives when there clearly ARE alternatives.

If you're like me and Jay and just want to race without all the fluff, do the non-WTC events.

As someone who has yet to do an IM distance race (IMLP 2005???), I'm attracted to the IMNA events for the reasons that many of you have listed above. I am guaranteed top-notch volunteers, aid stations and spectators. I know the aid stations won't be running out of water; I know the volunteers won't abandon their posts after only 14 hours (I've read some race reports where the racers didn't even know which direction to go!); I know the spectators will be cheering me on almost every step of the way. Those types of things are important to me for my first IM race and therefore I'm willing to fork out the extra money.

I do think it's ridiculous that you have to sign up and pay a year ahead of time and yet can't get any money back if you have to drop out. If you can drop out a reasonable amount of time ahead of the race then they can easily fill your spot with someone else. At least 50 - 75% of the money should be refunded. To me, that's just IMNA being a bully because they can get away with it.

D.

>> I am guaranteed top-notch volunteers,<<

How so? Does IMNA keep a stable of them locked up in Florida and let them out only on race day?

I'd venture to guess that there are great volunteers, good volunteers, and some not so good volunteers and that it depends on the locale or group volunteering. Having raced (and volunteered) since 1986 and in many different parts of the country (and out of the US), the best volunteers I've ever come across are the Ultramax folks (the vast majority being Missouri Lions Club members having no contact with triathlon until last year). The towns people of Taupo, NZ at IM NZ run a close second. The Marines from IM Cali 2000 also make the list.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

trimanjay:

Try an adventure race. One of my races this year was with my cousin as a two-man team. After 13.5 hours, we came in to find my wife, my cousin’s fiance, and the RD with the clock. Attrition rate was something like 60%.

Burns

Every single RR I've read for IMNA events talks about how great the volunteers are. Maybe it's because IMNA can attract more volunteers and therefore no one gets burned out or tired from being out there 15+ hours. I'm not saying other races don't have great volunteers (or better volunteers), but IMNA events will have lots and lots of them and they won't decide to go home and abandon me when I need them the most. I'm sure the more well-known non-IMNA races out there are run well too, but with IMNA I'm pretty much guaranteed to have a well-run event.

D.

Volunteers are certainly key to the race but in no way are IMNA events the only events out there that will give you a good experience. Duke Blue Devil, Great Floridian, Desoto Triple T..all fantastic events that give you great support and volunteers at a lower price.

The key to finding out whether or not you're doing a great race is to ask other athletes who have done the race. Look to them for the answer and not IMNA or how much the race costs.

There's no question that IMNA gives you a pretty well run race. However...the level of amenities, volunteer support, etc has not changed one bit since I did my first IMNA in 98. But the price has risen over $125+ over that period of time. What is in that $125+ increase?